Center for Consciousness Science Symposium

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>>Speaker: ACROSS THE COUNTRY AND ACROSS THE WORLD. AND PRESENTED AT THOSE CONFERENCES. OF COURSE, WE HAVE SYMPOSIA LIKE TODAY. I AM ALSO EXCITED ABOUT WHERE WE ARE AS A FIELD IN CONSCIOUSNESS. AS I JUST MENTIONED WE HAVE COLLABORATIONS WITH QUENTIN CHEMISTS AND I WAS READING SOME ARTICLES AND BOOKS ON QUANTUM PHYSICS AND REVISITING AN EXCITING HISTORY AND WAS THINKING, WOW, WHAT MUST IT HAVE BEEN LIKE TO HAVE BEEN A PART OF A SCIENTIFIC REVOLUTION TO INCREASE A FOUNDATIONAL UNDERSTANDING OF THE WORLD AROUND US? AND THEN IT STRUCK ME. I AM AND WE ARE A PART OF SUCH A SCIENTIFIC REVOLUTION THAT’S GOING ON RIGHT NOW IN OUR TIME. WITH MANY OF THE TOOLS AND RESOURCES TO HAVE A FOUNDATIONAL UNDERSTANDING OF OUR PHENOMENAL LOGICAL WORLD. ONE DAY, HOPEFULLY, WE WILL MAKE THE CONNECTION BETWEEN THAT PHENOMENAL LOGICAL WORLD AND THE PHYSICAL WORLD. WHAT AN EXCITING TIME TO BE ALIVE AND TO BE SEEKING AFTER ANSWERS TO THESE IMPORTANT QUESTIONS. I AM ALSO PARTICULARLY EXCITED ABOUT TODAY’S TOPIC. BECAUSE THIS IS GOING TO BE CRITICAL FOR REALLY HAVING AN ADVANCED SCIENCE OF CONSCIOUSNESS. PSYCHEDELICS ARE TO THE SCIENCE OF CONSCIOUSNESS WHAT A MICROSCOPE WAS TO BIOLOGY OR A TELESCOPE WAS TO ASTRONOMY. THIS IS REALLY GOING TO GIVE US A NEW WAY OF VIEWING THINGS. THIS WAS ALREADY EXPLORED AT ONE POINT IN SCIENTIFIC HISTORY. I FEEL PRIVILEGED AGAIN TO BE ALIVE IN A TIME WHERE IT’S COMING BACK. THANKS TO SOME OF THE PEOPLE IN THIS ROOM, CERTAINLY OUR KEYNOTE SPEAKER, TO BRING US INTO LEGITIMACY AND INTO THE MAINSTREAM.O I’M EXCITED ABOUT OUR CENTER. WE HAVE CREATED A UNIQUE HOME FOR ANY UNIQUE BRAND OF SCHOLAR AND JUNIOR AND AM EXCITED ABOUT THE SCIENCE WORK CONSCIOUSNESS AND I’M EXCITED ABOUT THE PSYCHEDELIC DIMENSION OF THAT SCIENCE. IT HAS X EXCITED AS I AM ABOUT THESE THINGS, WE HAVE TO THINK ABOUT THE NEXT LEVEL FOR OUR CENTER I REALLY WANT TO HAVE A GREATER INFLUENCE ACROSS THE UNIVERSITY AND ACROSS THE WORLD IN ADVANCING RIGOROUS CONSCIOUSNESS SCIENCE. WE ALSO HAVE TO THINK OF THE POLICY LEVEL. HOW DO WE INCREASE NIH PORTFOLIOS? HOW DO WE HAVE CONVERSATIONS AT THE LEVEL OF THE NATIONAL ACADEMY OF MEDICINE ABOUT PSYCHEDELIC THERAPY? SO THERE ARE OTHER LEVELS TO CONSIDER AND HOPEFULLY, WE CAN ALL WORK TOGETHER TO TAKE THE FIELD THERE IN THE NEXT FIVE YEARS. I WANT TO EXPRESS GRATITUDE. FIRST OF ALL, I WANT TO EXPRESS MY GRATITUDE FOR EVERYBODY WHO IS HERE TODAY VISITING US AND PARTICIPATING. I WANT TO EXPRESS MY GRATITUDE TOWARD OUR SPEAKERS WHO HAVE TROUBLE FROM AROUND THE COUNTRY AND AROUND THE WORLD TO SHARE THEIR INSIGHT AND SHARE THEIR EXPERTISE WITH US. I WANT TO THANK OUR SPONSORS IN THE DEPARTMENT OF ANESTHESIOLOGY AND THE NATIONAL INSTITUTES OF HEALTH AND WITHOUT THAT SUPPORT, WE COULD NOT BE DOING THE THINGS WE ARE DOING TODAY. I WANT TO EXPRESS THANKS TO OUR STAFF AND ACTUALLY ASK YOU TO JOIN ME IN A ROUND OF APPLAUSE ON | [APPLAUSE] >>George: FOR THE MANY STAFF MEMBERS WHO WORKED VERY HARD TO NAIL DOWN THE LOGISTICS IN AN EVENT LIKE THIS. AND FINALLY, I WANT TO THANK OUR GRADUATE STUDENTS. I’M GOING TO EMBARRASS THEM AND HAVE THEM STAND UP. THE GRADUATE STUDENTS AT THE UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN AND BEYOND WHO PARTICIPATED IN THE PLANNING OF THIS EVENT. I WILL LET YOU SIT DOWN NOW. [APPLAUSE] >>George: A ROUND OF APPLAUSE. AND, YOU KNOW, I WANT TO THANK THEM NOT JUST FOR THEIR WORK, BUT FOR TEACHING ME HOW POWERFUL IT IS WHEN WE ELEVATE THE VOICES OF OUR STUDENTS, THESE FRESH PERSPECTIVES THAT ARE DRIVING NEW RESEARCHER GENESIS IN OUR LAB AND ACROSS THE UNIVERSITY. SO THANK YOU ALL FOR BEING HERE. JUST A COUPLE OF THINGS.OR THOSE WHO HAVE TICKETS, A REMINDER THAT THE SCREENING FOR THE DOCUMENTARY MAGIC MEDICINE WILL HAPPEN AT MICHIGAN THEATER TONIGHT, AND I LOOK FORWARD TO WELCOMING YOU ALL THERE. I’M GOING TO SAY A FEW WORDS, PROBABLY SOME OF THE SAME WORDS THAT YOU JUST HEARD, FOR THE CROWD OF ANN ARBOR AND WE WILL HAVE A MODERATED DISCUSSION. THIS IS A DOCUMENTARY ABOUT. [WORD?] AS AN ANTIDEPRESSANT. IT LOOKS LIKE THE CROWD IS GOING TO BE MANAGEABLE TODAY AND THAT’S GREAT. THERE MIGHT BE SOME EBB AND FLOW AND WE HAVE AN OVERFLOW ROOM ACROSS THE HALL BUT I THINK WE ARE GOING TO BE IN GOOD SHAPE. THE OTHER THING I WANTED TO MENTION RELATES TO THE DISCUSSION SECTION. WE SHOULD TRY TO KEEP THE QUESTIONS PRETTY FOCUSED JUST SO WE CAN HAVE AS MANY VOICES AS POSSIBLE. SO FOCUS QUESTIONS, FOCUS ANSWERS, ALSO A REMINDER ALTHOUGH THERE ARE MANY DIMENSIONS TO THIS TOPIC, THIS IS REALLY MORE OF AN ACADEMIC CONFERENCE FOCUSED ON THE SCIENCE AND THE CLINICAL IMPLICATIONS. SO LET’S TRY TO FOCUS THE QUESTIONS ON THE PSYCHEDELIC EXPERIENCE RATHER THAN YOUR PSYCHEDELIC EXPERIENCE. YOU CAN TALK ABOUT THAT AT THE BREAK. SO WITH THAT, I’M GOING TO WELCOME UP OUR FIRST GRADUATE STUDENT AND THE STUDENTS ARE REALLY GOING TO DO THE INTRODUCING TODAY AND OUR FIRST GRADUATE STUDENT, JON DEAN WILL INTRODUCE OUR KEYNOTE SPEAKER, HE HAS BEEN AT THE UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN WORKING WITH. [WORD?] NOW CONNECTED TO THE CENTER FOR CONSCIOUSNESS SCIENCE AND SOME OF THE OTHER DEPARTMENTS AT THE UNIVERSITY. HIS SON REMARKABLE WORK IN OUR LAB WORKING ON THE ROLE OF A PRE-QUANTUM CORTEX IN CONSCIOUSNESS AND WITH GMO ON RECENTLY PUBLISHED WORK ABOUT SYNTHESIS AND DMT SO I’M GOING TO LET JON TAKE IT FROM HERE. THANK YOU ALL FOR BEING HERE. I FEEL SO PRIVILEGED TO BE A PART OF THIS EXPERIENCE WITH YOU AND I HOPE YOU HAVE A WONDERFUL DAY. THANK YOU. [APPLAUSE].>>Jon: I WOULD LIKE TO THANK GEORGE. I AM SURE EVERYONE ELSE IN ATTENDANCE WHAT AS WELL.SO WE ARE VERY GRATEFUL FOR HIM PROVIDING THIS PLATFORM FOR THE GRADUATE STUDENTS AND ALL OF OUR SPEAKERS. WITH THAT IN MIND I WANT TO INTRODUCE OUR FIRST SPEAKER TODAY, RICK DOBLIN. HE IS THE FOUNDER AND EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE MULTIPLET DISCIPLINARY OR MAPS AND HE RECEIVED HIS DOCTORATE IN PUBLIC POLICY FROM HARVARD’S KENNEDY SCHOOL OF GOVERNMENT WHERE HE WROTE HIS DISSERTATION ON THE REGULATION OF MEDICAL USES OF PSYCHEDELICS AND MARIJUANA AND A MASTERS THESIS IN A SURVEY ABOUT SMOKE MARIJUANA VERSUS THE ORAL THC FULL ANTINAUSEA CONTROL FOR CANCER PATIENTS. AND HE STUDIED WITH DOCTOR. [NAME?] WAS THE FIRST TO BE CERTIFIED AS A. [WORD?] PRACTITIONER. HIS PROFESSIONAL ROLE HAS HELPED DEVELOP LEGAL CONTEXT WITH THE BENEFICIAL USES OF PSYCHOLOGIC DELEGATES AND MARIJUANA PRIMARILY AS PRESCRIPTION MEDICINES BUT ALSO FOR PERSONAL GROWTH FOR OTHERWISE HEALTHY INDIVIDUALS. EVENTUALLY TO BECOME A LEGALLY LICENSED PSYCHEDELIC THERAPIST HE FOUNDED MAPS IN 1986 AND CURRENTLY RESIDES IN BOSTON WITH HIS WIFE, TWO DOGS AND AN EMPTY NEST WITH CHILDREN THAT ARE IN COLLEGE AND TO HAVE GRADUATED. IF EVERYONE WOULD JOIN ME IN WELCOMING RICK DOBLIN. [APPLAUSE].>>Rick: IT’S A PLEASURE TO BE HERE TODAY THIS MORNING. I DON’T USUALLY GET UP THIS EARLY IN THE MORNING. AND I’M PARTICULARLY GRATEFUL TO BE HERE. THANK YOU, GEORGE, FOR THIS IDEA OF SCIENCE AND CONSCIOUSNESS BECAUSE AS I ENDED MY TED TALK I SAID THAT HUMANITY IS IN A RACE BETWEEN CONSCIOUSNESS AND CATASTROPHE AND THE PSYCHEDELIC RENAISSANCE IS HERE TO HELP CONSCIOUSNESS PREVAIL. SO I THINK WE REALLY NEED TO LOOK INTERNALLY. WE HAVE THE TECHNOLOGY TO DO MIRACULOUS THINGS, BUT WE LACK THE EMOTIONAL AND SPIRITUAL MATURITY TO HANDLE IT. ALBERT EINSTEIN SAID OUR TECHNOLOGY HAS EXCEEDED OUR COMMUNITY. AND SO IT STRUCK ME THAT UP REALLY EARLY AGE THAT WHAT WE REALLY NEED TO DO IS DEVELOP OUR HUMANITY, DEVELOP OUR SPIRITUALITY AND OUR SENSE OF EMOTIONAL MATURITY. WHEN I WAS IN COLLEGE AT 17 I HAVE A T-SHIRT THAT I WORE WHENEVER I TOOK LSD OR MESCALINE AND IT HAD THIS QUESTION OF THE UNKNOWN IMAGE ON A T-SHIRT. I STILL HAVE THE T-SHIRT, BUT WE ARE ALL ENGAGED HERE IN ACADEMIA BUT ALSO IN THE PARTICULAR PURSUITS THAT WE ARE ALL DOING AND REQUESTING INTO THE UNKNOWN. SO I WANT TO SPEAK ABOUT THAT IN THE SPIRIT THAT WE ARE ENGAGED IN THIS SCIENTIFIC INVESTIGATIONS. THIS IS FROM STAN GROFF AS WE HEARD BEFORE PSYCHEDELICS FOR THE STUDY OF THE MIND WITH THE MICROSCOPE IS TO BIOLOGY AND THE TELESCOPE IS TO ASTRONOMY. AND SIMILAR TO THE WAY THAT PEOPLE WHO USE THE TELESCOPE, I DISCOVERED SOME UNCOMFORTABLE TRUTHS THAT CONTRADICTED SOME OF THE RELIGIOUS TRADITIONS OF THE DAY. THERE WAS A LOT OF PRESSURE ON USING THE TELESCOPE AND THERE’S BEEN A LOT OF PRESSURE ON USING PSYCHEDELICS. SO MUCH SO THAT SHORTLY AFTER STAN WROTE THIS THERE WAS NO MORE ACCESS TO LSD. THIS IS ACTUALLY FROM CHICAGO, THIS IS LAKESHORE DRIVE. [LAUGHTER] >>Rick: WHOEVER MADE THIS SIGN MUST HAVE HAD A SENSE OF HUMOR. AND SO THIS WAS ME AT AGE 18 WHEN I FIRST STARTED DOING LSD AND PSILOCYBIN AND MUSHROOMS AND MESCALINE AND A FEW OTHER THINGS. BUT I GOT REALLY CONFUSED. AND I HAD THIS DELUSION THAT THE MORE DRUGS YOU TAKE THE FASTER YOU EVOLVE. AND I WISH THAT THAT WERE TRUE. IT WOULD SIMPLIFY THINGS A LOT, BUT IT WASN’T ACTUALLY TRUE. AND I WENT TO THE GUIDANCE COUNSELOR IN COLLEGE AND I SAID, I NEED HELP WITH MY TRIPS AND ACTUALLY TOOK ME SERIOUSLY, WHICH WAS REALLY IMPRESSIVE TO ME AND THEY GAVE ME A BOOK BY STAN GROFF TO READ. AND READING THAT AT AGE 18 IN 1972 REALLY CONVINCED ME THAT THIS WAS HOW I WANTED TO FOCUS MY LIFE.IT WAS MAINLY THIS SORT OF POLITICAL MORE THAN SCIENTIFIC AND ONE THERAPEUTIC, THIS SENDS THEM A MYSTICAL EXPERIENCE OF CONNECTION OF UNITY YOU CAN GET WITH PSYCHEDELICS, BUT THAT YOU CAN GET IN MANY OTHER WAYS. THAT WAS THE ANTIDOTE TO DEHUMANIZATION, TO THE HOLOCAUST, TO RACISM, TO ALL SORTS OF HUMAN PROBLEMS. AND IF WE ALL COULD FEEL AND NOT JUST THINK BUT FEEL THE SENSE OF CONNECTION WITH EVERYTHING, IT WOULD ALSO RELATE TO HOW WE THINK ABOUT NATURE, HOW WE THINK ABOUT THE ENVIRONMENT. SO I FELT FROM A POLITICAL POINT OF VIEW TRYING TO BRING BACK PSYCHEDELICS TO HELP MORE PEOPLE HAVE THIS SPIRITUAL EXPERIENCE WOULD BE THE MOST POLITICALLY POTENT THING I COULD DO WITH MY LIFE. SO THAT’S WHERE I DEDICATED MYSELF TO THIS IN 1972 BASICALLY CHANNELING FEAR OF THE WORLD, FEAR OF PEOPLE IN FEAR OF THE WAY THEY ARE EASILY RATIONALITY’S OVERWHELMED BY IRRATIONALITY AND BY HATRED AND FEAR. AND TO SHOW YOU A SENSE OF HOW MUCH PROGRESS ÃBECAUSE AS SOON AS I SORT OF FOCUSED ON THIS, I REALIZED THE BACKLASH HAD COME AND THERE WAS NO ACCESS TO LSD AND EVERYTHING WAS SHUT DOWN. IN A SIGN OF PROGRESS IT’S TAKEN ABOUT 50 YEARS. THIS IS KIND OF A PSYCHEDELIC SLIDE WITH MARIA SABINA, WITH MUSHROOMS. THIS SLIDE WAS MADE BY THE FDA, BUT THE DIVISION OF PSYCHIATRY PRODUCTS, AND THEY PRESENTED AT THE AMERICAN SOCIETY FOR PHARMACOLOGY IN MAY. AND WHAT THEY ANNOUNCED IN ADDITION TO THIS AND OTHER SLIDES IS THAT THE FDA IS NOW GOING TO CREATE A GUIDANCE DOCUMENT FOR PEOPLE WHO WANT TO DO PSYCHEDELIC RESEARCH. SO THERE ARE LAWS AND REGULATIONS AND THEN INFORMALLY THERE ARE GUIDANCES THAT HELP PHARMACEUTICAL COMPANIES SPONSOR THAT WANT TO DO RESEARCH IN PARTICULAR AREAS, SO THE FDA WILL DEVELOP A GUIDANCE FOR PSYCHEDELIC RESEARCH AND WANTS US IN OTHER GROUPS TO CONSULT WITH THEM FOR DEVELOPMENT. THIS IS A TREMENDOUS SIGN OF PROGRESS BECAUSE THE FDA WAS THE AGENT THAT SHUT DOWN ALL OF THIS RESEARCH THROUGH UNBALANCED RISK-BENEFIT ANALYSIS AND CLAIMING THAT THE RISKS WERE SO GREAT. ANOTHER SIGN OF PROGRESS IS A TALK THAT I RECENTLY GAVE WITH GEORGE GOLDSMITH WHO FOUNDED COMPASS BEFORE PROFIT COMPANY THAT’S TRYING TO MAKE. [NAME?] INTO A MEDICINE. THIS WAS AT HARVARD BUSINESS SCHOOL AND WHAT I REALLY LIKED IS AFTER I TALKED DURING THE QUESTIONS THEY LEFT THEY SLIDE UP FOR ABOUT 20 MINUTES ABOUT THE FUTURE EVOLUTION OF MAPS. THE FACT THAT BUSINESSES ARE NOT INTERESTED IN THIS, WE ARE BEING FREQUENTLY CONTACTED ON ALMOST A WEEKLY OR DAILY BASIS FOR PEOPLE WHO WANT TO INVEST IN THIS SPACE. WE ARE NOT SO SYMPATHETIC AT LEAST FOR OUR CORPORATE MISSION WE WANT TO DO THAT IN A NONPROFIT WAY. THE FACT PEOPLE ARE THINKING THIS COULD BE AN AREA FOR INVESTMENT AS A SIGN OF THE TREMENDOUS PROGRESS THAT WE HAVE MADE. BUT ALSO, AS WE START TALKING ABOUT MAINSTREAMING THERE’S SOME UNUSUAL COLLABORATIONS COMING. THIS WAS A SCREEN GRAB BY GOD BY ACCIDENT WHEN I WAS CHECKING MY TED TALKS TO SEE HOW MANY PEOPLE HAVE WATCHED IT. BUT THE NATIONAL SECURITY AGENCY IS ADVERTISING OR PEOPLE WHO WANT CAREERS IN THE NSA ON MY TALK ON THE TED WEBSITE. [LAUGHTER] >>Rick: AND I’M LIKE, HOW DID THAT HAPPEN? I THINK THEY MUST HAVE A DEAL WITH TED AND THEY PUT IT ON ALL THE TALKS. I DON’T KNOW THEY ARE MICRO-TARGETING PSYCHEDELIC INTERESTED PEOPLE FOR CAREERS AS SPIES, BUT YOU NEVER KNOW. THAT’S THE KINDS OF THINGS THAT ARE STARTING TO HAPPEN THESE DAYS. FROM A NEUROSCIENTIFIC POINT OF VIEW, PROGRESS IS BEING MADE. THIS WAS AN ARTICLE SEVERAL YEARS AGO IN THE CELL AND IT WAS BY. [NAME?] AT STANFORD. WHAT THEY SAID WAS THE WORLD PUBLIC POPULATIONS NEED MORE COMPASSION AND EMPATHY FOR ONE ANOTHER PICK THE STUDY OF MBA PROVIDES ONE SMALL BUT POTENTIALLY IMPORTANT STEP TOWARDS REACHING THAT GOAL. SO THIS WAS A CALL TO ACTION TO THE COMMUNITY OF NEUROSCIENTISTS TO UNDERSTAND MORE ABOUT EMPATHY AND COMPASSION. IT WAS NOT REALLY ABOUT MAKING DRUGS INTO A MEDICINE. IT WAS SOMETHING I COULD HAVE WRITTEN MYSELF AS A SORT OF THIS BIGGER POLITICAL AGENDA. AND SO YEARS AFTER THEY DREW THAT UP THEY PUBLISHED SOMETHING ELSE IN JUNE IN JOURNAL OF PSYCHOLOGY CALLED DISRUPTIVE FORM OF. [WORD?] THIS MOVE MORE FOR MORAL CHANGE TO COMPASSION AND EMPATHY TO MBNA AND SELF ITEM. BUT THIS IT IS BECOMING INCREASINGLY ACCEPTED IN THE ACADEMIC WORLD AND SINCE IT’S KIND OF A NEUROSCIENCE, THERE’S A FEW THINGS I WILL SAY ABOUT HOW IT WORKS. BASICALLY WE DON’T CARE. I DON’T MEAN TO BE TOO BLUNT ABOUT IT BUT FROM THE POINT OF VIEW YOU HAVE TO PROVE SAFETY AND EFFICACY BUT YOU DON’T HAVE TO HAVE THE VAGUEST IDEA OF HOW THESE DRUGS WORK. BECAUSE IF YOU CAN HELP PEOPLE THAT ARE SUFFERING NOW THE EXPLANATIONS FOR HOW IT WORKS CAN COME LATER. SO FOR US BECAUSE WE HAVE LIMITED RESOURCES AND HAVE TO REALLY STRATEGICALLY TARGET THEM WE FOCUS ON SAFETY AND EFFICACY, AND IF WE PROVE THAT SOMETHING BENEFICIAL IS GOING ON WE HOPE THAT OTHERS WILL COME ALONG AND FIGURE OUT HOW IT WORKS. AND SO THAT’S WHY I SAY WE DON’T HEAR IN A SENSE WE DON’T ALLOCATE FUNDS DIRECTLY FOR NEUROSCIENCE OR FOR MECHANISM OF ACTION RESEARCH. IT BLOCKS US FROM GETTING FUNDS AND OTHER WELLCOME TRUST FUNDS BECAUSE THEY WANT MECHANISM OF ACTION RESEARCH. BASICALLY WHAT WE KNOW IS THAT PTSD WHICH IS THE MAIN THING WE ARE LOOKING AT, CHANGES PEOPLE’S BRAINS.AND IF YOU HAVE CHRONIC SEVERE TREATMENT RESISTANT PTSD WHICH IS PRETTY MUCH THE KIND OF PEOPLE WE WORK WITH, WHAT YOU HAVE IS A HYPERACTIVE AMYGDALA WHICH RESPONDS TO MEMORIES AND TRIGGERS. YOU HAVE REDUCTION OF ACTIVITY IN YOUR PREFRONTAL CORTEX SO YOU ARE NOT THINKING LOGICALLY ANYMORE. YOU ARE MORE EASILY SWAYED BY THESE EMOTIONAL AND ENVIRONMENTAL TRIGGERS. AND THE HIPPOCAMPUS ACTIVITY IS ALSO DECLINED WHERE WE SORT OF PUT THINGS MORE INTO LONG-TERM MEMORY. BUT MBNA CHANGES YOUR BRAIN TOO, BUT IT DOESN’T IN THE OPPOSITE WAY. IF YOU DEVELOP A DRUG FOR PTSD MBNA LIBYA. IT REDUCES ACTIVITY SO WE CAN PROCESS AND RECALL MORE EASILY FEARFUL AND PAINFUL EMOTIONAL MEMORIES. IT INCREASES ACTIVITY AND THE FRONTAL CORTEX SO THAT WE CAN THINK LOGICALLY ABOUT THESE THINGS AND NOT GET TRIGGERED SO EASILY AND ALSO INCREASES CONNECTIVITY BETWEEN THE HIPPOCAMPUS AND THE AMYGDALA SO WE CAN SORT OF REMOVE MEMORIES THAT SEEM LIKE THEY ARE ALWAYS ABOUT TO KEEP HAPPENING. THEY ARE NEVER REALLY FORMULATE SORT OF PROCESS INTO LONG-TERM MEMORY. AND SO MBNA TARGETS A LOT OF THE THINGS PTSD DOES TO THE BRAIN. IT INCREASES OTHER DRUGS AND RELEASES A WHOLE BUNCH OF HORMONES PARTICULARLY OXYTOCIN AND PROLACTIN. WHICH ACCOUNTS FOR A LOT OF THIS CONNECTIVITY AND EMOTIONAL BONDING THAT PEOPLE HAVE WITH THEIR THERAPISTS AND WITH OTHERS IS WHAT MAKES IT SUCH A POPULAR SOCIAL DRUG. ONE OF MY FAVORITE STUDIES RECENTLY WAS THE OCTOPUS STUDY. HOW MANY OF YOU HAVE HEARD OF THIS OCTOPUS STUDY? A BUNCH OF YOU HAVE. I WILL BE QUICK ABOUT IT. WE PROVIDED THE MDNA JOHNS HOPKINS PROVIDED THE OCTOPUSES AND BASICALLY IT TURNS OUT THEY HAVE SEROTONIN RECEPTOR SITES AND THEY ARE IN SOME WAYS WE THINK MORE THAN 500 MILLION YEARS AGO HUMANS AND OCTOPUSES DIVERGED. SO THE QUESTION IS, WHAT MIGHT MDMA DO TO OCTOPUSES AND OCTOPUSES ARE ALSO SOLITARY CREATURES, UNLESS IT’S MATING SEASON. MOST OF THE TIME THEY ALL BY THEMSELVES. AND SO THE EXPERIMENT WAS THEY WOULD PUT AN OCTOPUS IN A CHAMBER WITH TWO DOORS, ONE ON EITHER SIDE. ONE GOES TO AN INANIMATE OBJECT AND THE OTHER GOES TO ANOTHER OCTOPUS AND THEY WOULD SWITCH THE GENDERS AROUND IN ALL DIFFERENT WAYS FOR THE OCTOPUSES AND IT TURNS OUT THAT NORMALLY OCTOPUSES SPEND WAY MORE TIME WITH THE INANIMATE OBJECT. WHEN THERE WITH THE OCTOPUS THEY ARE AROUND THE EDGES OF THE CAGE, THEY ARE NOT REALLY IN COMMUNICATION DIRECTLY WITH THE OCTOPUS. BUT THEY HAD TO EXPERIMENT A WHILE AND THEY FIGURED OUT HOW TO PUT MDMA IN THE WATER AND SOAK THE OCTOPUS IN THE WATER FOR 10 MINUTES. AND SO THEY ADJUSTED THE DOSE, THEY GOT IT RIGHT, AND THEN THEY PUT THE OCTOPUS BACK IN THE CHAMBER, AND LO AND BEHOLD THE OCTOPUS SPENT WAY MORE TIME WITH THE OTHER OCTOPUS. AND AROUND THE CAGE. THEY EVEN HAVE SOME PICTURES OF THE OCTOPUSES SORT OF DIRT TENTACLES INTERTWINED. SO WHAT THIS SUGGESTS TO ME IS THIS PROSOCIAL BEHAVIOR OF MDMA GOES SO DEEP, IT GOES PREVERBAL. AND SO THE FDA IS ACTUALLY REQUIRED US TO DEVELOP WHAT ARE CALLED A PEDIATRIC PLAN SO THAT IF WE SUCCEED IN ADULTS AND ADULTS MEANS 18 IT UP WE DON’T HAVE ANY UPPER AGE LIMIT BECAUSE IT’S MORE ABOUT HEALTH AND AGE, BUT IF WE SUCCEED IN THAT WE MUST DO STUDIES AND TRAUMATIZED CHILDREN FROM 12 TO 17 YEARS OLD.ND IF THAT WORKS, THEN WE HAVE TO WORK WITH 7 TO 11-YEAR-OLDS. SO THESE ARE WHAT ARE CALLED PHASE 4 STUDIES. YOU MAKE COMMITMENTS AS A SPONSOR IF IT GETS APPROVED POSTAPPROVAL YOU HAVE TO DO THESE STUDIES. SO WE ARE DELIGHTED TO WORK WITH TRAUMATIZED ADOLESCENTS. THE DRUG WAR IS DRIVEN ON THIS IDEA WE HAVE TO PROTECT KIDS FROM DRUGS. IT’S NOT ABOUT SOCIAL DISRUPTION IS MORE ABOUT PROTECTING CHILDREN, AND YET THE FACT THAT WE ARE BEING REQUIRED TO DO WORK WITH MDMA AND CHILDREN PARTICULARLY TRAUMATIZED CHILDREN, I THINK WILL HELP US DEVELOP SOME SAFETY INFORMATION AND OTHERS TO REFLECT ON THE QUESTION ABOUT DO WE REALLY NEED TO PROTECT CHILDREN FROM DRUGS? SO OCTOPUS STUDY IS A PHENOMENAL ONE. THE SAME TEAM DID A STUDY IN MICE AND THEY PUBLISHED IT RECENTLY IN NATURE AND WHAT THIS DEMONSTRATED IS THAT MDMA STIMULATES OXYTOCIN AND OXYTOCIN OPENS UP THIS CRITICAL REWARD. PROSOCIAL REWARD LEARNING AND MAKES PEOPLE MORE SOCIAL AND INCREASES NEURAL CONNECTIONS ALONG THESE KIND OF PROSOCIAL TRACKS. AND SO THIS ALSO PROVIDES A REALLY STRONG UNDERPINNING FOR MECHANISM OF ACTION OF HOW THIS ACTUALLY WORKS.NOTHER SIGN OF PROGRESS IS THAT THIS WAS SHOWN ON OPRAH BACK IN 2001. SO FOR THOSE OF YOU THAT HURT THAT MDMA TAKES ICE CREAM SCOOPS OUT OF YOUR BRAIN, THIS IS WHERE IT COMES FROM. THERE IS A YOUNG WOMAN WHOSE MOTHER WAS INVOLVED IN DOING THESE TREATMENTS. SHE DID MDMA, COCAINE, OTHER DRUGS. MTV WORKED WITH HER ALSO AND THEY WANTED TO HAVE A DRAMATIC STORY AND THEY SAID WE WILL DO YOUR BRAIN SCAN AND THEN WE WILL REVEAL YOUR SCANS TO YOU LIVE WHILE YOU ARE WATCHING WITH YOUR MOTHER. AND THIS IS WHAT THEY SHOW HER. SO THIS IS GRAPHICALLY MANIPULATED IMAGE. THIS IS A SPECT SCAN ANY AREA BELOW A CERTAIN AREA WAS SHOWN AS A WHOLE. MEANWHILE THE WOMAN WHOSE BRAIN THIS IS WAS WALKING, WAS TALKING, WAS COMPLETELY VERBAL, WAS SEEMINGLY FINE. SO THAT DIDN’T SEEM TO BOTHER TOO MANY PEOPLE. THIS WAS SUPPOSEDLY HER BRAIN BUT HERE SHE WAS TOTALLY FINE. BUT OPRAH FINALLY ABOUT 15 YEARS LATER DID A LITTLE BIT OF ATONING FOR WHAT SHE DID AND SHE PERMITTED AN ARTICLE ABOUT MDMA TO BE IN HER MAGAZINE AND SHE PERMITTED A REPORTER TO DO AN UNDERGROUND EXPERIENCE. WHAT WE HAVE IS POSITIVE PROPAGANDA AS MDA IS A MAGIC PILL. SO THAT’S KIND OF HOW CULTURE HAS SWUNG FROM SIDE TO SIDE. THIS IS NOT ACTUALLY ÃWE DON’T THINK OF MDMA AS A MAGIC PILL ALTHOUGH IT COMES PRETTY CLOSE A LOT OF TIMES. BUT WE ARE REALLY GLAD THAT OPRAH WAS WILLING TO KIND OF DO ANOTHER SIDE OF THE STORY. BUT WE ACTUALLY TRIED TO GET HER TO DO ANOTHER T.V. SHOW, BRINGING BACK THE SAME WOMAN WHOSE BRAIN IT WAS WHO NOW IS STILL DOING FINE. THE ONLY EVIDENCE OF BRAIN DAMAGE IN HER IS SHE TOOK A JOB WITH THE DRUGS ARE PUBLIC OFFICE AS AN ANTI- ECSTASY SPOKE PERSON. SO THIS IS THE STRUCTURE OF MAPS. WHEN I TALK ABOUT NONPROFIT DRUG DEVELOPMENT, WE ACTUALLY DO HAVE A RARE SITUATION MOST NONPROFITS IF YOU WANT TO FEED THE HUNGRY OR HOUSE THE HOMELESS OR ANY NUMBER OF DIFFERENT THINGS, YOU HAVE AN ONGOING AND CONSTANT NEED TO RAISE MONEY. BUT WE ARE A RARE NONPROFIT AND THAT WE HAVE A PHARMACEUTICAL DRUG THAT WE WANT TO MARKET AND SO MARKETING MDMA FOR MORE THAN IT COSTS US TO PRODUCE IT IS SOMETHING THAT SHOULD BE TAXABLE. IT’S NOT SOMETHING THAT FITS INSIDE THE NONPROFIT. SO NOT ONLY DO WE WANT TO MODEL NEW WAYS FOR PSYCHOTHERAPY, PSYCHEDELIC ASSISTANCE AND PSYCHOTHERAPY, WE WENT TO MODEL NEW APPROACHES TOWARDS MARKETING DRUGS AND THE PHARMACEUTICAL SPACE. SO WE GET A PROFIT MOTIVE HAS WORKED AMERICAN HEALTHCARE. IF YOU LOOK AT OUR AVERAGE EXPENDITURES PER PERSON AND OUR OUTCOMES WE ARE NUMBER ONE WITH AVERAGE EXPENDITURES AND OUTCOMES ARE WAY DOWN. THE WHOLE MODE OF US WORKED HEALTHCARE. SO THE BENEFIT PART IS A MODIFICATION OF CAPITALISM WHERE YOU MAXIMIZE PUBLIC BENEFIT NONPROFIT. IT IS FOR-PROFIT. WE WILL PAY TAXES ON IT. ON WHATEVER MONEY WE MAKE FROM MDMA. BUT IT’S 100 PERCENT OWNED BY THE NONPROFIT. SO EVEN THOUGH IT IS FOR-PROFIT, IT COULD TAKE INVESTORS ÃWE ONLY HAVE ONE INVESTOR WHICH IS THE NONPROFIT. PEOPLE DONATE TO MAPS AND MAPS BEST INVEST IN THE BENEFIT COURT AND THEY DO THE RESEARCH AND WILL EVENTUALLY SELL MDMA. THE REASON WE CAN CELEBRATE SLIGHT PROFIT GOES BACK TO RONALD REAGAN WHO I DON’T THINK HIM FOR VERY MUCH, BUT I LIKE TO THINK HIM FOR THIS. SO HE PASSED A LAW AND SIGNED IT TO PROVIDE INCENTIVES FOR DEVELOPING DRUGS THAT ARE OFF PATENT AND THESE INCENTIVES ARE CALLED DATA EXCLUSIVITY.SO WHAT IT MEANS IS THAT NO ONE CAN USE OUR DATA TO MARKET A GENERIC FOR FIVE YEARS. AND IF YOU DO THESE PEDIATRIC STUDIES, YOU GET AN EXTRA SIX MONTHS. SO THAT’S FIVE AND HALF YEARS. AND IT BLOCKS AND BODY FROM APPLYING TO THE FDA TO MARKET A GENERIC UNTIL THE END OF THIS FIVE AND HALF YEAR PERIOD IS OVER AND THAT TAKES THE FDA AT LEAST SIX MONTHS TO REVIEW THEIR OBLIGATIONS. WE ANTICIPATE A PERIOD OF SIX YEARS OF DATA EXCLUSIVITY. OTHER COMPANIES, IF THEY WANTED, COULD GENERATE THEIR OWN DATA BUT IT WILL TAKE THEM FIVE OR SIX YEARS AND WILL TAKE THEM $40-$50 MILLION AND THEY PROBABLY WOULD JUST WEAN US OUT. WE DON’T ANTICIPATE THAT. IN EUROPE, IT’S 8 TO 10 YEARS FOR DATA EXCLUSIVITY. SO EVEN THOUGH MDMA IS OFF PATENT AND WE HAVE HIRED PATENT ATTORNEYS TO DEVELOP ANTI-PATENT STRATEGIES SO NOBODY CAN PATENT ANY OF THE USES OF MDMA WE DO HAVE THIS DATA EXCLUSIVITY. THIS IS KIND OF THE FUTURE OF HOW I ANTICIPATE MAPS MIGHT POSSIBLY GROW. SO THE DARK LINES ÃTHESE DARK LINES HERE ARE COMPANIES LIKE MAX OWNS OR WILL CONTROL. THIS IS THE NONPROFIT, THE BASE OF EVERYTHING. THE NONPROFIT OWNS THE BENEFIT COURT. THE BENEFIT COURT TRAINED THERAPIST, WILL DO COMPASSIONATE USED AND DOES RESEARCH AND WILL MARKET MDMA. WE HAVE MAPS EUROPE BUT IS ALSO FOR-PROFIT 100 PERCENT OWNED BY THE NONPROFIT. WHICH WE NEEDED TO NEGOTIATE WITH THE DMA AND WE HAVE TEACHER GLOBAL COMPANIES THAT WILL START IN DIFFERENT COUNTRIES. THIS IS A POSSIBLE EXPANSION TO OTHER BENEFIT CORPORATIONS WHICH MAY OR MAY NOT TAKE INVESTORS WITH CANNABIS AND. [WORD?]. I ANTICIPATE IS GROWING THIS WAY AND OTHER INDICATIONS AND PTSD. I WILL SAY FOR CANNABIS WE ARE VERY MUCH HOPING ON THE STATE OF MICHIGAN FRIENDS OF MINE WITH THE INITIATIVE THAT LEGALIZED MARIJUANA IN MICHIGAN. AND I DON’T KNOW HOW MANY OF YOU KNOW THIS BUT THEY PUT IN A COUPLE OF LINES AND SAID THAT THE STATE MUST ALLOCATE $20 MILLION A YEAR FOR TWO YEARS TO RESEARCH CANNABIS AND VETERANS AND VETERANS AND SUICIDE. AND THAT MONEY MUST GO TO NONPROFITS OR ACADEMIC INSTITUTIONS. SO YOU GUYS SHOULD START THINKING ABOUT THE KINDS OF RESEARCH YOU MIGHT BE ABLE TO DO. BUT MY SUGGESTION IS THAT ENOUGH MONEY TO TAKE THE FLOWER ALL THE WAY THROUGH THE FDA INTO A MEDICINE AND HAVE IT BE THE LOWEST COST GENERIC PRODUCT. SO I THINK, AGAIN, THIS TENSION BETWEEN HEALING AND KNOWLEDGE, I WOULD HOPE MUCH OF THIS $40 MILLION WILL GO WITH RESEARCHERS HERE AT UNIVERSITIES, BUT IT WILL BE MAINLY FOCUSED ON DEVELOPING THE PLANT INTO A PRESCRIPTION MEDICINE. WE HAVE DONE A GOOD JOB OF GETTING BIPARTISAN SUPPORT FOR OUR RESEARCH, INCLUDING $1 MILLION FROM REBECCA MERCER, THE DAUGHTER OF ROBERT MERCER. THEY ARE THE ONES WHO OWN CAMBRIDGE ANALYTICA THE PRIMARY FUNDERS OF TRUMP AND BANNON AND YET THE ONLY LIMITATION THAT THEY PUT ON THEIR DONATION WAS TO BE LIMITED TO VETERANS. AND SO THAT WAS VERY SATISFYING TO US, THAT WE WOULD HAVE THAT SUPPORT. AS A RESULT, WE HAVE HAD INCREDIBLE COVERAGE ON FOX NEWS. [LAUGHTER] >>Rick: AND THE DAILY CALLER AND ALL SORTS OF UNLIKELY AREAS THAT YOU MIGHT NOT ANTICIPATE. WE ALSO HAVE RECEIVED SUPPORT FROM ELIZABETH COPE WHO IS THE DAUGHTER OF CHARLES COOK. SHE WROTE ME A LETTER YESTERDAY THAT THERE’S AN ARTICLE IN THE BOSTON MAGAZINE SORT OF A PROFILE OF MAPS AND IT INDICATED WE WERE HAVING A CONSERVATIVE CROSSOVER, AND ELIZABETH WROTE AND SAID, I AM NOT MY FATHER. I’M NOT A CONSERVATIVE. I DON’T LIKE LABELS. SO I JUST WANTED TO POINT THAT OUT, THAT THERE’S A LOT OF DEMONIZATION GOING ON OF FAMILIES, AND I THINK THAT THAT’S EXAGGERATED AND UNFAIR. WE ALSO HAVE MONEY FROM GEORGE SOROS AND THIS SPANS THE POLITICAL SPECTRUM FROM THE OPEN SITE FOUNDATION, THEY GAVE US $70,000 TO DO A TRAINING FOR THERAPISTS OF COLOR BECAUSE WE HAVE NOTICED LIKE IN THIS ROOM AND ALSO IN THE PSYCHEDELIC COMMUNITY IS ALMOST ENTIRELY WHITE AND YET LOADS OF PEOPLE THAT ARE PEOPLE OF COLOR HAVE PTSD AND HOW DO WE REACH OUT TO THEM AND THEY ARE NOT ACTUALLY VOLUNTEERING? WE THOUGHT THEY WOULD, BUT WHAT WE THINK NOW WE NEED IS THERAPISTS OF COLOR TO GET PATIENTS OF COLOR. THAT’S WHERE THE OPEN SOCIETY FOUNDATION CAME IN. MAPS IS A PRETTY BIG ORGANIZATION THESE DAYS. THERE ARE AROUND 58 PEOPLE, ALL FUNDED BY DONATIONS. I CAN’T REALLY KEEP TRACK OF IT ANYMORE BECAUSE IT’S GROWING PRETTY QUICKLY. I THINK IT’S AROUND 58. BUT MAX HAS GOT THE EXECUTIVE TEAM OUR FUNDRAISING TEAM OUR COMMUNICATIONS TEAM, OUR MEDIA TEAM OPERATIONS AND THEN THE. [NAME?] PROJECT AND A SMALL ADVOCACY GROUP AND THOSE WILL BE THE ONES THAT HELP US TRY TO GET THE MONEY FROM THE STATE OF MICHIGAN. WE ALSO HAVE A BUNCH OF PEOPLE ON THE BENEFIT CORPORATION AND SO THESE ARE MOSTLY FEMALE LED TEAM OF WOMEN THAT USED TO WORK FOR NOVARTIS. WE HAVE THE REFUGEES FROM BIG PHARMA. SO THEY ARE ÃTHEY SEEM TO LIKE TO HIRE OTHER WOMEN AND I’M A LITTLE BIT WORRIED ABOUT DIVERSITY IN THE BENEFIT CORP. THEY TURNED OUT TO BE MUCH MORE INTERESTED IN THE PSYCHEDELIC SUNDAY DRUGS THEY WERE WORKING ON FOR NOVARTIS. WE ALSO HAVE OUR THERAPY TRAINING PROGRAM SUPERVISORS, SO THAT’S THE BIG CHALLENGE FOR US IS HOW DO WE EXPAND OUR ABILITY TO TRAIN MORE THERAPISTS AND THEN WE HAVE OUR PRINCIPAL INVESTIGATORS FOR OUR CASE STREET SITE. TO GIVE YOU A SENSE OF HOW LARGE THINGS ARE GETTING, WE HAVE TRAINED SEVERAL HUNDRED THERAPISTS, AND SO THIS IS A BUNCH OF PICTURES OF OUR THERAPY TRAINING ALL OVER THE WORLD. AND MOST RECENTLY ÃMOST RECENTLY THIS ONE AND THEN ALSO OUR TRAINING FOR THERAPISTS OF COLOR. SO WE ARE REALLY MOVING FORWARD AND WE HAVE ABOUT 6000 THERAPISTS WHO HAVE CONTACTED US ON THE WEBSITE THEY WANT TO KNOW ABOUT THE TRAINING PROGRAM. SO IN ADDITION TO DOING MDMA FOR PTSD, JUST TO GIVE YOU A SENSE OF WHAT WE ARE DOING, WE’VE DONE SMALL PILOT STUDIES WITH OTHER INDICATIONS INCLUDING SOCIAL ANXIETY AND ADULT ON THE AUTISM SPECTRUM. THIS GOT REALLY GOOD RESULTS. IF WE HAD MORE FUNDS WE WOULD EXPAND THIS. WE HAVE DONE WORK WITH MDMA FOR ANXIETY ASSOCIATED WITH LIFE-THREATENING ILLNESS. THIS IS ALSO SOMETHING THAT WAS VERY PROMISING. MOSTLY NOW. [WORD?] IS BEING USED FOR THIS BUT MDMA COULD BE USED AS WELL. A DONOR JUST OFFERED $1 MILLION FOR US TO DO EATING DISORDERS WITH MDMA. AND. [WORD?] WILL BELIEVING IT AND WE WILL HAVE VANCOUVER AND TORONTO SITES. WE’VE DONE SOME. [WORD?] PROJECTS WE ARE IN A NATIONAL CRISIS ABOUT DRUG OVERDOSES LAST YEAR MORE PEOPLE IN AMERICA DIED OF DRUG OVERDOSES AND AMERICANS DIED IN ALL OF VIETNAM WAR IN IRAQ OR AFGHANISTAN. IT WAS KIND OF A HORRIFYING STATISTIC. I’D AGAIN IS ILLEGAL IN THE UNITED STATES SOME LSD DEALERS IN THE 60s WERE EXPERIENCING WITH. [WORD?] AND THEY GOT BUSTED AND THEY SAID LET’S MAKE IT ILLEGAL. BUT IT’S NOT A DRUG OF ABUSE IS A DIFFICULT EXPERIENCE. IT IS LEGAL IN MOST PARTS OF THE WORLD. WE DID OUTCOME STUDIES AND OBSERVATIONAL OUTCOME STUDIES WITH NEW ZEALAND CLINICS AND MEXICO CLINICS. NOW WE ARE WORKING TOWARDS A PREMEETING WITH FDA ABOUT NEGOTIATING A DRUG PLAN AND HAS RISKS SO THE FIRST STEP WOULD BE A PHASE 1 TO DOSE RESPONSE SAFETY STUDY REREGISTERED IN. [WORD?] THIS IS A PICTURE OF VICTORIA HALE SHE RECENTLY JOINED SHE WORKED FOR FIVE YEARS AT THE FDA AND WORK FOR GENENTECH AND GOT TIRED OF FOR-PROFIT PHARMA AND THEN SHE STARTED HER OWN NONPROFIT STUDY THAT GOT $150 MILLION FOR THE GATES FOUNDATION FOR DRUGS FOR AFRICA. THE BUFFETT FAMILY CALLED HER AND SAID YOU WANT TO WORK ON LOW-COST CONTRACEPTIVES FOR THE WORLD? AND SHE SAID YES AND SO SHE GOT A WHOLE BUNCH MORE MONEY AND DID MEDICINE 360 FOUR HORMONAL IUDS. AND THEN SHE STARTED EXPLORING IOWA ALASKA AND SHE STARTED HAVING PROMISING AND SO NOW SHE WANTS TO MAKE IT INTO A MEDICINE. SHE IS VERY COMFORTABLE WITH A LOT OF THE OTHER THINGS WE ARE DOING AS WELL. SO WE ARE ALSO WITH MARIJUANA AS I SAID WE HAVE TO .1 MILLION DOLLARS FOR MARIJUANA TAXES FROM THE STATE OF COLORADO FOR THE FIRST STUDY OF MARIJUANA IN VETERANS. WE DID FOUR DIFFERENT GROUPS. THC, LOW CBD, CBD WITH LOW THC A THC COMBINATION WITH PLACEBO WE ARE WRITING UP THE RESULTS FOR THIS. BASICALLY, I CAN SAY THAT THE OUTCOMES ARE MORE IN THE LEVEL OF SYMPTOM REDUCTION AND LESS THAN WHAT WE ARE FINDING WITH MDMA ASSISTED PSYCHOTHERAPY FOR PTSD. BUT IT’S STILL THE HELPING OF A BUNCH OF PEOPLE. THERE IS A BIG PROBLEM WITH MARIJUANA DRUG DEVELOPMENT. THERE’S ONLY ONE FEDERALLY LEGAL SOURCE OF SUPPLY WHICH IS THE UNIVERSITY OF MISSISSIPPI, WHICH GROWS UNDER CONTRACT OF. [WORD?] AND THEY GROW CRUMMY MARIJUANA. THEY SAY HIGHER POTENCY MARIJUANA IS TOO STICKY AND THE GUMS OF THEIR JOINT ROLLING MACHINES. [LAUGHTER] >>Rick: SO THEY ACTUALLY PUT OUT A REQUEST NOW FOR PROFESSIONAL JOINT ROLLERS. [LAUGHTER] >>Rick: SO THEY CAN DO HIGHER POTENCY MARIJUANA. BUT THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE WITH EXPERIENCE AS PROFESSIONAL JOINT ROLLERS. BUT THEY CAN ONLY PROVIDE MARIJUANA FOR RESEARCH NOT FOR PRESCRIPTION SALES AND SO THEREFORE PHASE 3 STUDIES WHICH IS WHERE YOU’RE AT WITH MDMA CAN ONLY BE DONE WITH THE EXACT SAME DRUG YOU WANT TO MARKET. AS LONG AS THIS MONOPOLY EXISTS, THERE’S NO WAY TO TAKE DOMESTIC SUPPLIES THROUGH THE FDA. EVEN THOUGH MICHIGAN WILL BE AUTHORIZING MARIJUANA PRODUCTION THERE MARIJUANA IS WAY BETTER QUALITY OF OUR POLICIES FRESHER BUT NONE OF IT CAN BE USED IN RESEARCH BECAUSE IT PROBABLY ILLEGAL AND WILL ONLY USE THE LEGAL STUFF. SO ATTORNEY GENERAL BARB HAS INDICATED THEY WILL LICENSE MORE COMPANIES. THERE’S BEEN OVER 30 APPLICATIONS SINCE AUGUST 2016 WHEN THE DEA UNDER OBAMA SAID HE WOULD END THE MONOPOLY AND THEN UNDER TRUMP THEY BLOCKED EVERYTHING.O NOW UNDER PRESSURE, WILLIAM BARR SAYS HE WILL EVENTUALLY LICENSE SOME THINGS. IT’S THE END OF THE ROAD FOR THE NIGHT OF MONOPOLY. BUT IT HASN’T ENDED YET. SO REALLY BEFORE WE DO DRUG DEVELOPMENT RESEARCH WE NEED A SUPPLY THAT CAN GO THROUGH THE WHOLE SYSTEM. EVEN THOUGH THERE’S FOREIGN COUNTRIES PERMITTING MARIJUANA TO BE GROWN, NONE OF THEM à NONE OF THESE COMPANIES HAVE OPENED UP DRUG MASTER FILES WITH THE FDA SO WE CAN’T IMPORT FROM ANYWHERE EITHER. SO THAT’S BLOCKING THINGS. AND NOT IN A DRUG DEVELOPMENT CONTEXT, BUT WE ARE ALSO DOING IT TURNS OUT A BUNCH OF ISRAELIS AND PALESTINIANS HAVE DONE AYAHUASCA AND MDMA TOGETHER ILLEGAL UNDERGROUND. WE HAVE HEARD ABOUT IT AND WE HAVE A THREE YEAR PROJECT. THE FIRST YEAR IS NEAR THE END IT WAS DOING SURVEYS AND INTERVIEWS WITH ALL OF THESE ARE ISRAELIS AND PALESTINIANS AND THEN WE’RE GOING TO DO CONTROLLED STUDY WITH MEASURES OF CONFLICT RESOLUTION AND HOW YOU SEE THE OTHERS. THIS IS ONE OF OUR MOST IMPORTANT PROJECTS AND GET BACK TO THE POLITICAL DANGERS AND THAT’S WHY I GOT INVOLVED IN THIS IN THE FIRST PLACE. AND IT’S GOING TO BE JUST A SMALL STEP BUT WE WILL HOPE TO BUILD THIS UP AND TO REALLY UNDERSTAND HOW PSYCHEDELICS CAN BE USED IN CONFLICT RESOLUTION MAYBE EVEN BETWEEN DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS OF THE UNITED STATES. BUT WE WILL START WITH AN EASIER THING OF ISRAELIS AND PALESTINIANS. [LAUGHTER] >>Rick: WE ALSO HAVE THE ZENDO PROJECT WHICH IS DESIGNED TO REDUCE OPPOSITIONS POLITICAL FOR MAKING PSYCHEDELICS INTO MEDICINES ONE CONCERN IS IF YOU MAKE THEM INTO MEDICINES PEOPLE GET THE SENSE THERE’S VALUE AND THEN THEY WILL GO OUT AND DO IT THEMSELVES AND THEN THEY’RE GOING TO GET INTO TROUBLE. SO THERE ARE LOTS AND LOTS OF PEOPLE DOING PSYCHEDELICS ON THEIR OWN ALREADY. AND WHAT WE THOUGHT IS THAT IF WE TAKE OUR THERAPISTS AND WHO ARE SKILLED IN HELPING PEOPLE THROUGH DIFFICULT PSYCHEDELIC EXPERIENCES AND BRING THEM TO BURNING MAN AND OTHER PLACES LIKE THAT AND OFFER THEIR SERVICES PEOPLE THAT HAVE DIFFICULT TRIPS THAT THAT WILL SHOW A MODEL FOR POST-PROHIBITION ROCK. AND SO WE HAVE DONE THAT AT BURNING MAN AND BLOOMED FAST IN PORTUGAL AND ALL OVER THE WORLD. THE ZENDO PROJECT IS A BIG PART OF WHAT MAPS DOES. WE HAD ABOUT 400 VOLUNTEERS AT BURNING MAN AND ABOUT 550 PEOPLE CAME SEEKING ASSISTANCE IN OUR TWO LOCATIONS. WE CALL IT THE ZENDO PROJECT BECAUSE IT WAS ORIGINALLY DONATED ZENDO. WE HAD OUR 20TH ANNIVERSARY OF MAPS AT BURNING MAN AND ZENDO WAS FROM A LEADING MEDITATOR IN SWITZERLAND FROM A WEALTHY FAMILY AND HE DONATED THIS CARDBOARD ZENDO TO MAPS WITH THE IDEA WE WOULD USE IT FOR ONE YEAR AND BURN IT UP.T WAS SO BEAUTIFUL WE KEPT IT. AND SO THIS IS JUST AN EXAMPLE OF OUR TRAINING PROGRAM. SO WE ACTUALLY TRAINED AT BURNING MAN AS WELL AND ELSEWHERE. THIS IS AN INTEGRAL PART OF WHAT WE DO IN ADDITION TO DRUG DEVELOPMENT. THE OTHER BIG PART IS BRINGING OURSELVES TOGETHER SO BRITNEY à THAT’S THE WHOLE THING ABOUT MAINSTREAMING IS COMING OUT INTO THE PUBLIC WITH WHAT IT IS THAT THE ROOTS ÃOUR PSYCHEDELIC ROOTS. SO IT WAS VERY IMPORTANT TO ME SYMBOLICALLY AND POLITICALLY TO BRING BURNING MAN TO WASHINGTON D.C.. SO I FELT LIKE THE SACRED SPACE AT BURNING MAN IS BETWEEN CENTER CAMP THE MAN AND THE TEMPLE AND I KIND OF MAPPED THAT IN MY MIND INTO THE SACRED SPACE OF AMERICA WHICH IS THE WASHINGTON MALL BETWEEN THE CAPITAL AND THE WASHINGTON MONUMENT. SO IT TOOK 10 YEARS TO FIGURE OUT, BUT WE WERE ABLE TO BRING BURNING MAN TO WASHINGTON D.C. [APPLAUSE] WE WERE SHOCKED WE GOT PERMISSION, BUT IT’S AMAZING WHAT YOU CAN GET PERMISSION FOR IF YOU KEEP AT IT AND THAT’S THE STORY OF OUR PSYCHEDELIC RESEARCH TOO. THIS WAS THE FIRST FIRE ON THEM ALL SINCE WORLD WAR II. AND THEN THE NEXT YEAR, WE BROUGHT ART CARS TO BURNING MAN AND WE HAD A PARADE WITH THE POLICE PROTECTING US. HERE’S A BIT OF THE PARADE. SO THIS IDEA OF TRYING TO BRING OUR DIFFERENT SELVES TOGETHER BRING THE PSYCHEDELICS INTO THE OPEN AND IT’S KIND OF WORKING. WE ARE MAKING MDMA INTO A MEDICINE. THAT’S OUR MAIN THING. MDMA WAS INVENTED BY MERRICK IN 1912. THEY WEREN’T REALLY LOOKING FOR IT THEY WERE LOOKING TO INVADE A COMPETITOR PRESENT PATENT ON ANOTHER DRUG AND THEY PANTED EVERYTHING ALONG THE WAY AND MDMA HAPPENED TO BE ONE OF THE THINGS THAT THEY HAD TO GO THROUGH, AND THEY PATENTED IT. THEY NEVER DID ANYTHING WITH IT UNTIL ABOUT 15 YEARS LATER WHEN THEIR PATENT WAS EXPIRING AND THEY DID A BUNCH OF STUDIES IN ANIMALS AND FOUND NOTHING INTERESTING. THE MICE DIDN’T SAY I LOVE MY FELLOW MOUSE. THEY WERE NOT CUDDLING ANYMORE. THEY DID NOTICE THAT IF THEY WERE. AND SO THEY ABANDONED IT. AND THE NEXT WE KNOW ABOUT IT IS 53 Ã54 THE ARMY CHEMICAL SERVICE LOOKING FOR MINDS TESTED MDMA AND SEVEN OTHER DRUGS BETWEEN MESCALINE AND METHAMPHETAMINE WITH MDMA IN THE MIDDLE. I LEARNED LAST NIGHT THAT THIS WAS DONE HERE AT THE UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN. SO I DIDN’T REALIZE THAT. AND SO THIS IS NOW A GOOD OPPORTUNITY FOR ME TO SAY THAT WE HAVE PILES OF LEGAL MEDICAL GRADE MDMA. ABOUT 15 KILOGRAMS WE ARE GETTING AND WE DON’T NEED IT ALL. WE WOULD LIKE TO DONATE IT FOR FREE TO ANY RESEARCHERS HERE AT THE UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN OR ANYWHERE ELSE THEY CAN GET A DEA LICENSE FOR RESEARCH. WE WILL ALSO PROVIDE ACCESS TO OUR IND AT THE FDA AND HELP IN ANY WAY. IF ANY OF YOU WANTED TO EXPLORE MDMA UNCONSCIOUSNESS OR MDMA IN THERAPY OR MECHANISM OF ACTION OR WHATEVER YOU WANT TO DO, WE WOULD LOVE TO CONTINUE THIS TRADITION OF MDMA RESEARCH AT THE UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN. THIS WAS CLASSIFIED, THOUGH, AND IT DID NOT COME OUT UNTIL THE 70S. SO VERY FEW PEOPLE REALLY KNEW ABOUT IT FOR REASONS WE ARE NOT QUITE CLEAR, MERRICK IN 1959 SUPPORT ANIMAL STUDIES WITH MDMA AND FOUND NOTHING INTERESTING AND GAVE IT UP. MDA WHICH WAS A PRETTY POPULAR DRUG DURING THE 60S, WHICH IS MORE LIKE A MDMA LSD COMBINATION BUT IT’S AN INCREDIBLE THERAPEUTIC DRUG AND IT WAS QUITE POPULAR CALLED THE MIRACLE DRUG OF AMERICA, AND WHEN IT WAS CRIMINALIZED, PEOPLE WERE AWARE NOW THAT THESE KIND OF DRUGS HAD A LOT OF POTENTIAL. AND SO SASHA. [NAME?] AND OTHERS CREATED VARIATIONS OF IT AND SASHA REINVENTED REDISCOVERED, YOU COULD SAY, MDMA. A GRADUATE STUDENT OF HIS TOLD HIM ABOUT IT, SO THAT’S THE IMPORTANT OF GRADUATE STUDENTS LEADING THE WAY IN SOME WAYS. SO WHAT SASHA DID IS HE HAD A GROUP OF 12 PEOPLE AND INVENTED HUNDREDS OF DRUGS. HE AND HIS WIFE WOULD TAKE THEM AND IF THEY LIKED IF THEY WOULD GIVE IT TO THIS SMALL GROUP OF 12 PEOPLE. THEY WOULD GET A VARIETY OF OPINIONS ON THE DRUG. IF COLLECTIVELY THEY THOUGHT IT HAD THERAPEUTIC POTENTIAL THEY GAVE IT DOWN TO LEO. [NAME?] WHO WAS A CLINICAL PSYCH PHD WHO ENDED UP BEING THE LEADER OF THE UNDERGROUND PSYCHEDELIC THERAPY MOVEMENT WE PUBLISHED A BOOK ABOUT HIM CALLED THE SECRET CHIEF, AND THEN WHEN HIS FAMILY GOT COMPARABLE YEARS LATER, WE PUBLISHED A NEW ONE CALLED THE SECRET CHIEF REVEALED. SO LEO IS THE ONE THAT REALLY INTRODUCED MDMA INTO PSYCHOTHERAPY AND TRAINED HUNDREDS OF PSYCHIATRISTS AND PSYCHOTHERAPISTS IN ITS USE AND THERE WAS AN ESTIMATED HALF A MILLION DOSES USED IN THESE THERAPEUTIC PERSONAL GROWTH CONTEXT FROM THE MIDDLE 70s TO THE EARLY 1980s WITHOUT ANY POLICE ATTENTION AND ESCAPE FROM THESE COMMUNITIES AND SOME OF THE PEOPLE THAT DID IT SO I COULD MAKE A LOT OF MONEY AND MORE PEOPLE SHOULD DO THIS AND THIS GROUP IN TEXAS TURNED IT INTO ECSTASY. SO MDMA WAS A THERAPY DRUG BEFORE IT WAS A PARTY DRUG. AND IT BECAME A PARTY DRUG HERE AT THE START CLUB IN DALLAS. THERE’S A DOCUMENTARY ABOUT IT, AND CREDIBLE. PEOPLE CAME FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD TO DO THIS AND THEY WOULD SELL IT FROMBEHIND THE COUNTER OR AN 800 NUMBER . HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE WERE DOING MDMA EVERY NIGHT. THAT ATTRACTED THE ATTENTION OF THE POLICE AND SO UNFORTUNATELY, IN THE SUMMER OF 1984, THE DEA MOVED TO CRIMINALIZED MDMA. THEY HAD NO KNOWLEDGE, REALLY, OF THE THERAPEUTIC USE OF IT. WE KNEW THIS WAS COMING. BECAUSE THIS WAS PUBLIC USE IT WAS NANCY REAGAN, JUST SAY NO. SO MDMA WAS DUE. SO WE MANAGED TO DO PREPARATION INTRODUCING SORTS OF PEOPLE TO THE MDMA WHO WOULD BE WILLING TO TRY IT WHEN IT WAS LEGAL AND THEN COULD TESTIFY IN COURT BUT DID NOT TO WORRY ABOUT SAYING THEY HAD DONE ILLEGAL THINGS. SO ONCE THE DEA MOVED ÃRIGHT THERE OR I WALKED INTO DEA HEADQUARTERS TO TAKE THEM BY SURPRISE TO APPLY FOR THE HEARING. AND SOME OF THE PEOPLE THAT WE GAVE IT TO WORK CONNECTED TO ME BY ROBERT MUELLER WHO WAS THE ASSISTANT SECRETARY GENERAL OF THE U.N. AND HE WROTE A BOOK NEW GENESIS AND IT WAS HIS THESIS AS WELL THAT IF WE END UP HELPING PEOPLE HAVE THIS MYSTICAL EXPERIENCE, THAT THAT’S REALLY THE KEY TOWARDS PEACE. SO HIS THESIS ABOUT GLOBAL SPIRITUALITY MENTIONED NOTHING ABOUT PSYCHEDELICS SO I WROTE TO HIM AND HE SAID YES. DO INTEREST TO BE RIGHT. I WILL HELP BRING BACK PSYCHEDELIC RESEARCH, AND HE REFERRED ME TO A BUNCH OF MYSTICS FROM DIFFERENT RELIGIONS. I READ BETWEEN THE LINES AND HEARD HIM SAY SEND THEM MDMA. AND LATER I CONFIRMED THAT WAS HIS HOPE. SO BROTHER DAVID. [NAME?] WAS WILLING TO TAKE IT IN THE MONASTERY FOR MEDITATION. THIS IS A GOOD DOSE FOR MEDITATION RESEARCH. RABBI. [NAME?] SAID YOU CALLED THE SABATHIA DELIGHT. IT’S LIKE A SABBATH AT THE END OF A LONG WEEK THIS WAS IN THE WASHINGTON POST. FREAKED OUT THE DEA SO THEY EMERGENCY SCHEDULED MDMA, WHICH EVENTUALLY TURNED OUT TO BE ILLEGAL BECAUSE THEY DID NOT HAVE PERMISSION TO DO THAT. SO THEN IN 86 ÃTHIS IS ME. THIS IS THE WOMAN THAT TURNED ME ON TO MDMA IN 1982. AND SO I STARTED MAX AS A NONPROFIT PSYCHEDELIC PHARMACEUTICAL COMPANY. WE WON AND THE ADMINISTRATOR GROUP WE WON TWICE AND THEN EVENTUALLY THE DEA LAWYERS FIGURED OUT HOW TO SATISFY THE COURTS AND MDMA WAS COMPLETELY CRIMINALIZED FOR ALL USES SO I FELT ALL THE WAY THROUGH WESTERN SCIENCE AND MEDICINE. AND THEN WE TRIED FOR SIX YEARS TO GET PERMISSION FROM THE FDA FOR PROTOCOLS FROM HARVARD, FROM SAN FRANCISCO AND ELSEWHERE AND ALL WERE REJECTED RICK STRASSMAN WE WILL HEAR FROM LATER TODAY WAS ONE OF THE PEOPLE WHO TRIED EARLY ON TO GET PERMISSION FROM MDMA WHICH WAS REJECTED. AND THEN FINALLY A TURNOVER TOOK PLACE AT THE FDA AND THE GROUP THAT REGULATED PSYCHEDELICS AND MARIJUANA SWITCH TO NEW GROUP THEY WANTED TO PUT SCIENCE INTO POLITICS ROUGHLY 25 YEARS AFTER THE CRACKDOWN. AND SO CHARLIE GROW DID OUR FIRST STUDY IN MDMA FOR A PHASE 1 DOSE RESPONSE SAFETY STUDY THAT WE GOT PERMISSION FOR IN 82. THEN WE STARTED WORKING WITH PTSD. THIS WAS THE STUDY IN SPAIN AND THE FRUSTRATING PART HERE IS THAT WE GOT GOOD PUBLICITY IN THE T.V. AND NEWSPAPERS, BUT THAT ALERTED THE MADRID ANTIDRUG AUTHORITY AND THEY SHUT THE STUDY DOWN FOR POLITICAL REASONS BEFORE IT WAS DONE WITHOUT ANY DATA THAT IT WAS ARMY PEOPLE.O THAT WAS HEARTBREAKING. THAT WAS OUR FIRST STUDY FOR MDMA FOR PTSD THEN WE GOT APPROVAL IN THE U.S. FOR ANOTHER MDMA PTSD STUDY THE PROTOCOL WAS REJECTED STARTING WITH THE WESTERN IRB WHICH IS THE LARGEST NONLOCAL PRIVATE IRB. THEY APPROVED THE STUDY IN A COUPLE OF WEEKS LATER WE GOT A LETTER SAYING WE ARE REVOKING OUR APPROVAL AND WE ARGUED WITH THEM FOR MANY MONTHS AND EVENTUALLY THE SITE IS NOT ABOUT THE SCIENCE. IT’S ABOUT THE POLITICS. IS YOUR MONEY BACK. GO AWAY. THEN WE HAD TO GO THROUGH SEVEN IRB’S NONE OF THEM ACCEPTED US SO I STARTED THE MAPS IRB. I FIGURED WE ARE THE INSTITUTION. WE STARTED OUR OWN. IT’S DICEY TO REVIEW YOUR OWN PROTOCOLS THE OPTICS AREN’T QUITE AS GOOD, BUT THE UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN HAS ITS OWN IRB, SO I FIGURED WHY SHOULDN’T MAPS. BEFORE WE WENT FORWARD WITHb& LET’S TRY ONE MORE TIME AND I LOOKED AT THE LIST OF NON-LOCAL IRB’S AND THERE WAS ONE COPY. [NAME?] GROUP. IF ANYBODY IS OPEN OF THIS IDEA OF SCIENCE BEING BLOCK FOR SCIENCE OR POLITICAL PURCHASE IT WOULD BE THAT. [NAME?] GROUP. THEY DID PERMIT US TO DO THE STUDY. THE IRONY OF IT IS THAT ABOUT A YEAR AND HALF AGO THEY WERE PURCHASED BY THE WESTERN IRB. AND NOW NEXT WEEK I’M GOING TO SEATTLE TO SPEAK AT THE CONFERENCE OF THE WESTERN IRB. SO NOW THEY ARE PROUD THAT THIS VERSION OF THEIR COMPANY HAS APPROVED MDMA. I WILL REMIND THEM OF THEIR SORRY HISTORY. [LAUGHTER] >>Rick: IN THIS AREA. SO IT TOOK US 30 YEARS TO GO FROM 1986 TO 2016 TO GET OUR END OF PHASE 2 NUMBER MEETING. WITH FDA. SO JUST TO GIVE YOU A SENSE. THIS IS JUST A TWO MINUTE VIDEO OF WHAT MDMA THERAPY LOOKS LIKE. THIS IS A MARINE VETERAN. HE WAS STRUGGLING WITH RAGE. AFTER HE CAME BACK FROM IRAQ HE WAS EASILY SLIPPED INTO RAGE. HE NEVER BEAT UP HIS WIFE BUT THROUGH STUFF AT HER AND TERRORIZED HER AND HE FELT THAT THIS WAS ON THE EDGE OF DIVORCE. AND SO THIS IS HIS FIRST SESSION WITH ÃLET’S SEE. MAYBE IN IRAQ I SAW WHAT I WAS CAPABLE OF AND I THINK I WAS TOO AFRAID. AND A PART OF ME JUST FEELS LIKE SO BAD THAT I DID NOT TO HIM. I MEAN, I KNOW IT’S ME, BU. [INDISCERNIBLE] >>BUT THAT’S REALLY AMAZING. I DON’T KNOW. I JUST GOT THIS AMAZING SENSE OF I GUESS WISDOM. I REALLY DON’T KNOW.>>IT SOUNDS A LOT LIKE WISDOM TO ME.>>IT’S REALLY AMAZING. THAT REALLY RAGEFUL ASPECT OF ME, I KNOW IT’S THERE, BUT IT JUST DOESN’T. [INDISCERNIBLE]. I REALLY FEEL LIKE SO MUCH MORE AT PEACE WITH EVERYTHING.>>GREAT.>>EVEN IF I TRIED TO THINK ABOUT IRAQ AND EVERYTHING, LIKE, I SOMEHOW FEEL LIKE REALLY PEACEFUL ABOUT THE FACT THAT THAT’S MY JOURNEY.>>THANKS FOR SHARING THAT.>>I MEAN, I KNOW THIS IS PART OF THE ÃYOU KNOW, PART OF THE DRUG, BUT WHEN I TRY AND THINK, YOU KNOW, AM I GOING TO BE ABLE TO HOLD ONTOTHIS UNDERSTANDING , THIS SOMEWHAT OF WISDOM, THIS KNOWLEDGE I HAVE NOW, I JUST ASKED MYSELF THAT QUESTION AND I FEEL IT’S SO PROFOUND THAT I DON’T THINK I CAN REALLY GET IT.>>Rick: THAT WAS ABOUT 10 YEARS AGO. HE IS STILL PTSD FREE AND HE’S NOW FORGOTTEN IT. LOTS OF PEOPLE DON’T UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THE CLASSIC PSYCHEDELICS AND MDMA. SHOWING THIS YOU CAN SEE WAS ABLE TO SPEAK HE WAS THINKING LOGICALLY. HE WAS DEEPLY TOUCHED EMOTIONALLY. ROUGHLY OF THE EIGHT HOUR SESSION WITH MALE-FEMALE TEAM AROUND HALF THE TIME PEOPLE’S EYES ARE CLOSED AND THERE LISTENING TO MUSIC AND THEY’RE HAVING INCREDIBLY METAPHORICAL, POETIC KIND OF IMAGERY, USUALLY AND THEY TELL THEMSELVES STORIES ABOUT HEALING, AND THEN THE OTHER TIMES THEY ARE TALKING TO THE THERAPIST. SO WE HAVE SOME DATA FROM THE VETERANS ADMINISTRATION. THERE IS ALMOST 1.4 MILLION VETS RECEIVING DISABILITY FOR MENTAL HEALTH RELATED DISORDERS. THE LATEST FIGURES FOR SEPTEMBER 2018 OVER 1,036,000 WERE RECEIVING DISABILITY PAYMENTS FOR PTSD AND IT PROBABLY COST THE VA ABOUT 17 BILLION A YEAR. 29 BILLION OR SO. THEY DON’T PUT ALL THESE ESTIMATES. THESE ARE OUR BEST GUESSES. BUT THEY HAVEN’T GIVEN US A PENNY UP FOR RESEARCH. EVENTUALLY I THINK THEY WILL END WE ARE ON THE VERGE OF TRYING TO GET RESEARCH INSIDE THE VA. AND AS PART OF OUR STRATEGY WE ARE WORKING WITH LEADING VA RESEARCHERS WHO DEVELOPED NONDRUG PSYCHOTHERAPIES FOR MDMA WHICH LEAVES LOTS OF PEOPLE TREATMENT RESISTANT. SO WE ARE PAYING FOR THEM TO STUDY HOW TO BLEND THEIR THERAPIES WITH MDMA. THE FIRST ONE WAS MDMA ASSISTED COGNITIVE BEHAVIORAL JOINT HISTORY WERE IN THE DIETS WERE PRESENT AS PTSD AND AFFECTS THE RELATIONSHIP AND IF BOTH PEOPLE MDMA. WE ARE DOING ANOTHER ONE IN TORONTO WITH COGNITIVE PROCESSING THERAPY WITH MDMA. AT EMORY UNIVERSITY, BLENDING MDMA WITH PROLONGED EXPOSURE. THIS IS THE. [NAME?] IS THE QUEEN OF RESEARCHER SHE DEVELOPED PROLONGED EXPOSURE AND 10 YEARS AGO SHE SAID MDMA IS DYNAMITE IN THE BRAIN. I WANT TO HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH IT AND YOU SHOULD FIGURE à GIVE IT UP AND DO VR RESEARCH. SO I WENT TO.NAME?] AT THIS CONFERENCE IN 2009 IN JERUSALEM AND I SAYS. [NAME?] SAYS I SHOULD DO PR RESEARCH HE WAS FUNDED THROUGH THE MILITARY. HE SAYS IF YOU HAVE MDMA YOU DON’T NEED VR. SO NOW EDNA IS READY TO DO RESEARCH WITH MDMA AND WE ARE FUNDING HER TO DO A SMALL STUDY AND ALSO RACHEL. [NAME?] IS AT THE BRONX VA SHE’S FROM A NEUROSCIENCE POINT OF VIEW TO UNDERSTAND THE EPIGENETIC RESEARCH TO SHOW TRANSMISSION OF TRAUMA FROM HOLOCAUST SURVIVORS TO THEIR CHILDREN. WE ARE ABOUT TO DO A GROUP THERAPY STUDY IN COMBINATION WITH COGNITIVE PROCESSING THERAPY AT UCSF AND THERE’S OTHER RESEARCH AT YALE THAT WILL BE THE FIRST TIME THAT’S GOING TO TAKE PTSD PATIENTS ON MDMA INTO A SCANNER. WE HAVE HAD PTSD PATIENTS SCANNED TO SEE ÃTHAT’S WHERE I SHOWED YOU SOME EARLY SLIDES. WE’VE HAD PEOPLE IN OUR STUDIES SCANNED BEFORE AND AFTER TO SHOW CHANGES BUT WOULD NEVER HAD ANYBODY UNDER MDMA AND A SCANNER. THERE’S ALSO A STUDY THAT WE ARE NOT FUNDING MDMA FOR ALCOHOLISM WITH 12 SUBJECTS. SO FAR REALLY GOOD RESULTS. HERE’S OUR RESULTS. WE DID PHASE 2 STUDIES AS I SAID IT TOOK 30 YEARS BUT WE DID THEM IN THE UNITED STATES, SWITZERLAND, ISRAEL AND CANADA. 105 PEOPLE. WE TESTED ALL OF THESE DIFFERENT DOSES TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO DO A DOUBLE-BLIND STUDY AND WHAT ARE THE MOST EFFECTIVE DOSES. THESE WERE THE MOST EFFECTIVE DOSES. 75 TO 125. IN THE McNIFF HAVE THE INITIAL AMOUNT AFTER TWO HOURS TO PROLONG THE EXPERIENCE, TO MAKE IT AN EIGHT HOUR EXPERIENCE. THE MAIN THING WE LEARNED IN PHASE 2 IS THAT THE CAUSE OF PTSD IS RELEVANT. THE SSRIS WORK BETTER IN MEN THAN WOMEN AND THEY FAILED IN COMBAT RELATED PTSD. WE ALSO LEARNED MY DISSERTATION WAS WRONG, AND I HOPE OTHERS OF YOU DON’T HAVE THIS EXPERIENCE BUT I FIGURED OUT HOW TO SOLVE THE DOUBLE-BLIND PROBLEM OR SO I THOUGHT WHICH WAS GOING TO BE LOW-DOSE THERAPY PLUS LOGOS MDMA VERSUS THERAPY VERSUS FULL DOSE AND THE CHALLENGE WAS FINDING THE DOSE THAT CAUSES ENOUGH CONFUSION BUT DOES NOT HAVE ENOUGH THERAPEUTIC POTENTIAL SO YOU CAN’T TELL THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE TWO GROUPS. AND WHAT WE DISCOVERED IS LOW DOSES OF MDMA MAKE PEOPLE UNCOMFORTABLE. YOU GET ACTIVATED WITHOUT THE FEAR REDUCTION AND SO THE THERAPY STILL WORKS, BUT YOU DO BETTER IF YOU HAVE THERAPY WITHOUT ANY MDMA THEN IF YOU GET THERAPY WITH LOW-DOSE MDMA. WE WENT TO THE FDA AND SAID YOU HAVE TO CHOOSE IF YOU WANT LIGHTING WE WILL DO IT FOR YOU. BUT IT’S GOING TO MAKE IT EASIER FOR US TO FIND THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE TWO GROUPS. THE REAL QUESTION IS IF YOU CAN DO WITH THERAPY, WHY BOTHER ADDING A DOCUMENT WOULD HAVE APPROVED HIS THERAPY PLUS AN ACTIVE PLACEBO PLUS THERAPY PLUS LOGOS MDMA. YOU DEMONSTRATED SAFETY IN MEDIUM TO LARGE SIZES. WHAT WE ALSO FOUND ON THIS IS ABOUT THE MYSTICAL EXPERIENCE. WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT LSD, [WORD?], THERE’S A CORRELATION BETWEEN THE DEPTH OF THE MEDICAL EXPERIENCE AND THERAPEUTIC DOSES. WE USE THE SAME MEASURE OF MYSTICAL EXPERIENCE QUESTIONNAIRE THAT USED AND WE SHOWED THAT WITH MDMA WITH THE ACTIVE DOSE PEOPLE DO SCORE PRETTY HIGH ON THE SCALE. BUT WHAT WE DISCOVERED IS THERE IS NO CORRELATION BETWEEN THE MYSTICAL EXPERIENCE AND THERAPEUTIC OUTCOMES WHEN IT COMES TO PTSD. YOU NEED TO BE GROUNDED IN YOUR BIOGRAPHY. SORT OF A FEAR EXTINCTION AND EVERY RECONSOLIDATION PROCESSES ARE TAKING PLACE IN THE MYSTICAL EXPERIENCE TAKES YOU OUT OF YOUR EGO SO DOES OTHER THINGS BUT IT DOESN’T SEEM TO HELP WITH PTSD. WHAT WE SHOWED IS IN OUR CONTROL GROUPS, 23 PERCENT LONGER HAD PTSD.THIS IS PRETTY GOOD. FOR PEOPLE THAT ARE SEVERE ON AVERAGE, CHRONIC, TREATMENT RESISTANT PTSD. WHEN YOU ADD MDMA IT MORE THAN DOUBLED TO 61 PERCENT. BUT THE MOST IMPORTANT POINT IS THAT THE BENEFITS, TO THE LAST OR NOT? IS THIS A SHORT-TERM EFFECT? IS THIS A PSYCHEDELIC AFTER FLOW? WE SHOWED THE ONE YEAR FOLLOW-UP THAT PEOPLE CONTINUE TO GET BETTER. SOME PEOPLE DO RELAPSE BUT ON AVERAGE PEOPLE CONTINUE TO GET BETTER AND OVER TWO THIRDS NO LONGER HAVE PTSD. OF THE ONE THIRD THAT STILL DOES A LOT OF THEM HAVE HAD CLINICALLY SIGNIFICANT REDUCTIONS AND SYMPTOMS AND IF WE CAN GIVE THEM ONE MORE MDMA EXPERIENCE THEY DO BETTER. ON THE BASIS OF THIS DATA FDA AGREED FOR US TO GO TO PHASE 3. WE NEGOTIATED A PROTOCOL WITH THEM. SPECIAL PROTOCOL ASSESSMENT SO WE HAVE AN AGREEMENT LETTER SO IF WE GET STATISTICALLY SIGNIFICANT EVIDENCE OF EFFICACY AND THERE’S NO NEW SAFETY PROBLEMS FDA WILL APPROVE THE DRUG. THIS IS OUR PHASE 3 DESIGN. SO IT’S BASICALLY THREE MDMA SESSIONS, ONE MONTH APART WITH 12 MINUTE NONDRUG PSYCHOTHERAPY SESSIONS. THREE BEFORE THE FIRST FOR PREPARATION AND THREE AFTER EACH ONE FOR INTEGRATION AND THEN THE TWO MONTH FOLLOW-UP IS THE PRIMARY OUTCOME MEASURE. WE ARE GOING TO START WITH 80 MILLIGRAMS FOLLOWED BY 40 THE FIRST ONE AND THEN THERE WILL BE A DISCUSSION BETWEEN THE THERAPIST BUT WE THINK EVERYBODY WILL GO UP OR ALMOST EVERYBODY TO 120 AND 60 AND NEITHER IS ALSO GOING TO BE A NEGOTIATION WHICH SEEM TO WORK BEST. IF YOU GRANTED THIS BREAKTHROUGH THERAPY. WE HAVE PHASE 3 SYKES TWO IN CANADA AND THE REST IN UNITED STATES UNFORTUNATELY NONE HERE IN MICHIGAN. WE ALSO NEGOTIATED WITH THE EUROPEAN MEDICINES AGENCY AND THEY HAVE ACCEPTED OUR U.S. DATA AND THEY’VE APPROVED FOR US TO MOVE INTO PHASE 3 NUMBER IN EUROPE SO THESE ARE THE ONES WE ARE DOING IN EUROPE. WE’VE ALSO BEEN TO TRY TO PICK ME UP ONE OF OUR DONORS THAT WANTS US TO BRING MDMA TO CHINA AND YOU CAN THINK ABOUT WHAT THAT MEANS IN TERMS OF WORKING WITH AUTHORITARIAN GOVERNMENTS BUT I DON’T THINK THEY WILL BE ABLE TO MISUSE IT THAT MUCH. BUT IT’S AN ETHICAL ISSUE THAT’S WORTH CONSIDERING. WE ARE NOW BRINGING A THERAPIST FROM CHINA TO OUR TRAINING IN OCTOBER. BECAUSE EMA WILL ACCEPT FDA DATA IS 34 MILLION TO MAKE IT TO THE MEDICINE AND THE FDA WE RAISE ALL OF THIS IF OUR COST ESTIMATES ARE GOOD WE ARE FINE. IF NOT WE NEED TO BRING US MORE MONEY. IT WILL ONLY BE ABOUT 11 MILLION IN EUROPE. WHEN WE TALK ABOUT WHEN CHANGE IS REALLY GOING TO HAPPEN, IT’S A LOT SOONER THAN WE REALIZE. SO EXPANDED ACCESS IS COMPASSIONATE USE. THERE’S ROUGHLY 8 MILLION PEOPLE WITH PTSD IN THE UNITED STATES. WE ONLY NEED SEVERAL HUNDRED IN OUR PHASE 3 STUDY. THE FDA HAS THIS PROGRAM CALLED EXPANDED ACCESS WHERE PATIENTS HAVE TO ACCEPT THE RISK, THEY HAVE TO BE TREATMENT RESISTANT TO BE PTSD WE HAVE TO DO PHASE 3 AS QUICKLY AS WE CAN. BUT THEN WE CAN PROVIDE OPTIONS FOR PEOPLE TO ACCESS MDMA THROUGH EXPANDED ACCESS BUT THEY HAVE TO ACCEPT THE RISKS BECAUSE IT’S NOT FULLY STUDIED AND HAVE TO PAY FOR THEMSELVES. WE ARE ABOUT TO START EXPANDED ACCESS BEFORE THE END OF 2019. THIS IS A KEY POINT, WHICH IS THE RISK EVALUATION. [INDISCERNIBLE] THEY WILL BE LIKE OTHER DRUGS. ONCE THEY ARE APPROVED THEY WILL NOT BE ABLE TO BE PRESCRIBED BY ANYBODY. THEY HAVE TO BE THROUGH OUR SPONSORS TRAINING PROGRAM SO MDMA PLUS THERAPY SO PEOPLE HAVE TO KNOW THERAPY AND IS ONLY UNDER DIRECT SUPERVISION AND THEY WILL BE A CENTRALIZED PHARMACY WHICH WILL LIST THE PEOPLE. WE HAVE THEM ANALYZE PSYCHOTHERAPY METHOD, IT’S CALLED ENTER DIRECTED AND WE BASICALLY BELIEVE THERE’S AN INNER HEALER AND THAT WE KNOW OUR BODY HEALS OURSELVES OUR CONSCIOUSNESS HAS SOME SIMILAR MECHANISM, WE BELIEVE. SO IT’S NOT SCRIPTED. WE FOLLOW WHAT PEOPLE ARE TALKING ABOUT WHETHER IT’S THE TRAUMA, WHETHER IT’S THE EVIDENCE WHETHER IT’S ONE TRAUMA OR ANOTHER TRAUMA. WE HAVE A WHOLE TRAINING PROGRAM. THE KEY FACTOR THERE IS THAT WE GIVE MDMA TO THERAPISTS AS PART OF THEIR TRAINING AND THEN WE SUPERVISE THEM AS THEY WORK WITH ONE PATIENT. THIS IS THE APPROACH. RIGHT NOW WE ARE CHARGING $9500 BUT WE FELT THAT THIS SHOULD BE A COST BREAKTHROUGH à BREAKEVEN. WE DON’T WANT TO MAKE MONEY ON TREATING PEOPLE. WE WILL GIVE A CERTIFICATE.E DON’T THINK THAT PEOPLE SHOULD BE REQUIRED TO TAKE MDMA IF THEY WANT TO BE A THERAPIST SO THAT PART IS OPTIONAL BUT WE THINK PATIENTS SHOULD KNOW. THIS IS THE CERTIFICATE IF YOU’VE TAKEN MDMA. [LAUGHTER] >>Rick: THERE WILL BE THOUSANDS OF PSYCHEDELIC CLINICS EVENTUALLY. THERE IS 6500 Ã6100 HOSPICE CENTERS AND THIS WILL BE A HIGH-END CLINIC AND THIS WILL BE A CLINIC IN THE CITY. EVENTUALLY YOU WILL GO TO GOOGLE MAPS TO FIND OUT WHERE YOUR NEAREST PSYCHEDELIC CLINIC IS A MONDAY I WILL BE A THERAPIST IN MY LAST SLIDE IS THIS YEAR THERE’S JUST 17 MILLION GIVEN TO JOHNS HOPKINS TO SET UP A PSYCHEDELIC RESEARCH CENTER WHICH IS TERRIFIC. [APPLAUSE] >>Rick: AND SO THIS WAS THE ARTICLE IN THE NEW YORK TIMES. THE FINAL QUOTE WAS FOR ME IT’S TAKEN HALF A CENTURY SINCE THE BACKLASH AGAINST PSYCHEDELIC 60s BUT CULTURAL EVOLUTION TAKES TIME. WE ARE SEEING A GLOBAL RENAISSANCE AND PUBLIC AND SCIENTIFIC INTEREST REGULATORY APPROVALS AND FUNDING FOR PSYCHEDELIC RESEARCH AND WE HOPE THAT RENAISSANCE WILL COME HERE TO THE UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN TO HAVE YOU DO SOME PSYCHEDELIC RESEARCH HERE TOO. THANK YOU. [APPLAUSE] >>Speaker: RICK, THAT WAS AMAZING. THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH. ASK SOMEBODY WHO DIRECTS THE TRANSLATIONAL SCIENCE INSTITUTE IN MY OTHER CAREER, THIS IS SO EYE-OPENING AND A GOOD REMINDER THAT IT’S NOT JUST ABOUT HAVING THE INSPIRATION. IT’S ABOUT REAL HARD WORK IN THE DRUG DEVELOPMENT SPACE AND REGULATORY SCIENCE SPACE AND WE ARE LEADING A NATIONAL NETWORK ON EXPANDED ACCESS. WE HAVE APPLIED GOING TO OUR GRANT FROM THE NIH AND THE PRINCIPAL INVESTIGATOR SO MAYBE WE CAN TALK ABOUT THAT. BUT JUST PHENOMENAL AND INSPIRING. WE HAVE TIME FOR A FEW QUESTIONS FROM THE AUDIENCE. OF COURSE, WE WILL BE ABLE TO FOLLOW UP LATER DURING OUR BREAK AND LUNCH. JUST MAYBE THREE QUESTIONS. YES. REALLY, THERE REALLY PROJECT. [AWAY FROM MIC] >>Speaker: LET’S SEPARATE THAT OUT INTO PHYSIOLOGICAL AND PSYCHOLOGICAL. SO WE PRESENTED TO THE EUROPEAN MEDICINES AGENCY AND AFTERWARDS WE LEAVE THE ROOM AND WE’D SPEND AN HOUR JUST SORT OF DEBRIEFING AND THEY WILL TELL US A MONTH LATER WHAT THEIR CONCLUSIONS WERE IN WRITING. AND AT THE MEETING WE HAD A BUNCH OF US MYSELF IN PERSON BUT WE HAD SOME PEOPLE FROM MAPS FROM MAPS CALIFORNIA ON THE PHONE LINES AS PART OF THE MEETING. WHAT I LEARNED AFTER WE DID OUR LITTLE DEBRIEFING IS THAT THE EMA HAD FORGOTTEN TO TURN OFF THE PHONE LINES AFTER THE MEETING ENDED. SO OUR PEOPLE IN CALIFORNIA WERE ABLE TO LISTEN IN ON THE DELIBERATIONS OF THE EMA. WE WOULD NOT HAVE CONSCIOUSLY BOOKED THEIR OFFICES OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT, BUT SINCE THEY LEFT IT OPEN AND I HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH IT, I FOUND OUT LATER. THE REASON I MENTION THIS STORY IS THE ONE THING THEY SAID WAS THAT THEY ARE PERSUADED ABOUT SAFETY, THAT WE HAVE TO PROVE FOOD FOR PROOF EFFICACY BUT THEY ARE PERSUADED. THERE’S NO CONCERN ABOUT NEUROTOXICITY WE GIVE ONLY A FEW DOSES. MDMA CAN BE HARMFUL, THOUGH, TO PEOPLE. SOME PEOPLE TAKE IT AND THEY OVERHEAT AND YOU GET HYPOTHERMIA. SOMETIMES PEOPLE DRINK TOO MUCH WATER AND THEY DIE FROM HYPONATREMIA. FROM DILUTING THEIR BLOOD. SO THERE ARE DANGERS. WE DON’T SEE THEM IN THE THERAPEUTIC CONTEXT. THE MAIN THING THAT WE WOULD BE CONCERNED ABOUT BOTH RECREATIONAL AND ALSO IN THERAPY IS WHEN PEOPLE’S TRAUMAS COME TO THE SURFACE AS THEY TRIED TO BLOCK IT AND NOT PROCESS IT, THEY COULD END UP WORSE OFF. SO WE HAVE HAD TIMES WHERE ONE WEEK TWO WOMEN CONTACTED US WITH KIND OF IDENTICAL STORIES BUT WITH DIFFERENT ENDINGS. BOTH OF THEM HAD TAKEN MDMA AND PARTY SETTINGS. BOTH OF THEM HAD REMEMBERED PRIOR SEXUAL ABUSE AND ONE OF THEM SAID I WAS WITH A BUNCH OF FRIENDS WHO ARE OUT TO PARTY DIDN’T WANT TO TALK TO THEM ABOUT THIS AND THEY JUST WANTED TO HAVE FUN. I STUFFED MY FEELINGS DOWN THAT WAS MONTHS AGO AND NOW I FEEL WORSE. SO THE OTHER WOMAN SAID I WAS WITH A FRIEND AND ABLE TO GO OFF IN THE CORNER WITH HER AND TELL HER WHAT HAPPENED AND I PROCESSED IT AND I FEEL BETTER AND WENT BACK TO THE PARTY. SO I THINK THE MAIN THING IS THE CONTEXT IN WHICH PEOPLE DO IT WILL DETERMINE WHETHER THEY ARE ABLE TO PROCESS THE EMOTIONS OR NOT. THERE IS A SLIGHT INCREASE IN TEMPERATURE, A SLIGHT INCREASE IN BLOOD PRESSURE. NONE OF THAT ARE REALLY SIGNIFICANT. WE ARE USING DOSES OF MDMA THAT ARE BELOW THE NO AFFECT LEVEL IN PRIMATES FOR NEUROTOXICITY. SO I THINK THE CONCERNS I WOULD ALSO HAVE IN RECREATIONAL SETTINGS IS PEOPLE TAKE IT MORE FREQUENTLY. BUT MDMA IS UNLIKE COCAINE OR MARIJUANA EVEN OR OPIATES IN THE SENSE THAT WHEN YOU GET ADDICTED TO CERTAIN DRUGS OR HE DEVELOPED A TOLERANCE, THE SOLUTION IS JUST TAKE HIGHER DOSES OF IT. THAT DOESN’T REALLY WORK WITH MDMA BECAUSE WHEN YOU GET TOLERANCE AND TAKE HIGHER DOSES TO GET MORE OF THE AMPHETAMINE SPEED PROPERTIES. THERE ARE PEOPLE THAT HAVE HAD CAREERS OF HEAVY ECSTASY USE THAT LAST MONTHS TO A YEAR OR SO BUT YOU DON’T FIND PEOPLE THAT HAVE TENURE CAREERS OF HEAVY ECSTASY USE BUT SO THERE’S BUILT-IN SAFETY MECHANISMS. SO MAYBE MDMA COULD TRIGGER AN EPILEPTIC SEIZURE IN SOMEONE THAT IS PRONE BUT WE DON’T SEE THAT HAPPEN. AS A THEORETICAL RISK. OVERALL THE SAFETY PROFILE IS REALLY GOOD.>>Speaker: MAYBE IF SOMEONE CAN ASK A QUESTION AND. [INDISCERNIBLE] [AWAY FROM MIC] >>Speaker: THAT’S A GREAT QUESTION. I THINK THE KEY ANSWER TO THAT IS DRUG POLICY REFORM AND END OF PROHIBITION AND WHAT WE CALL A SYSTEM OF LICENSED LEGALIZATION. SO THAT AS A NONPROFIT PHARMACEUTICAL WE ARE DIFFERENT THAN A FOR-PROFIT BECAUSE WE WANT PEOPLE TO HAVE ACCESS TO THESE DRUGS WITHOUT COMING TO US. ONLY THE WORST CASES, I THINK, THE HARDEST CASES WILL COME TO THESE CLINICS. OTHER TIMES PEOPLE CAN HELP HEAL THEMSELVES. I THINK THAT WILL PROVIDE A CHECK ON THESE ÃWITH THE PHARMACEUTICAL COMPANIES THE FOR-PROFIT ONES AND THE NONPROFIT ONES COMING INTO THE SPACE FOR. [WORD?] I THINK LICENSED LEGALIZATION SAYS THAT IT’S A FUNDAMENTAL HUMAN RIGHT TO ALTER YOUR CONSCIOUSNESS THAT YOU SHOULD HAVE THIS ABILITY AS AN ADULT TO ACCESS IT. BUT BECAUSE THERE ARE RISKS, I THINK THIS GROWTH OF THE PSYCHEDELIC CLINICS, NOW WE HAVE HUNDREDS OF KETAMINE CLINICS. I THINK EVENTUALLY WHAT WILL HAPPEN THIS IS 2035 IS OUR CURRENT PREDICTION. AFTER WE HAVE A DECADE PLUS ROLLOUT OF PSYCHEDELIC CLINICS IS THAT PEOPLE WILL GO TO ONE OF THESE CLINICS PAID FOR BY TAX MONEY BY ALL THE PEOPLE BUYING THE DRUGS OUTSIDE OF THAT AND THEY WILL HAVE AN EXPERIENCE UNDER SUPERVISION THEY KNOW WHAT THEY’RE GETTING INTO AND THEN THEY GET A LICENSE JUST LIKE THEY HAVE TO DEMONSTRATE THAT YOU DRIVE IN A CAR WITH AN INSPECTOR AND THEN YOU GET A LICENSE TO GET THE DRUG. AND THEN IF YOU MISBEHAVE, YOU GET PUNISHED FOR YOUR MISBEHAVIOR AND YOU LOSE YOUR LICENSE FOR A WHILE. I THINK WE SHOULD DO THAT FOR ALCOHOL AS WELL SO THE CLASSIC EXAMPLE IS DRUNK DRIVERS. A LOT OF DRUNK DRIVERS HAVE LOST THEIR DRIVERS LICENSE STILL BY ALCOHOL AND GOING OUT AND KILL PEOPLE WHEN THEY DON’T HAVE A DRIVERS LICENSE. WE SHOULD MAKE IT HARDER FOR THEM TO GET ALCOHOL.SO I THINK THE SYSTEM OF LICENSED LEGALIZATION IS THE WAY TO BE A CHECK ON THE FOR-PROFIT MOTIVE, AND I THINK ALSO THE KEY ISSUE FOR ME AND FOR A SOCIETY IS WHAT TO DO ABOUT MINORS. LET’S SAY RESET THE AGE OF 18. 18 AND ABOVE ARE ADULTS. I THINK WHAT WE SHOULD BASICALLY SAY IS THAT IT’S UP TO THE FAMILY, NOT THE GOVERNMENT. FAMILIES CAN OVERRIDE THE LAWS AGAINST MINORS. ACTUALLY, WE HAVE 23 STATES IN AMERICA THAT HAVE ALCOHOL LAWS WHERE PARENTS CAN GIVE ALCOHOL TO THEIR CHILDREN DESPITE THE LAWS AGAINST MINORS. SO WE SHOULD DO THAT FOR PSYCHEDELICS OR MARIJUANA FOR OTHER DRUGS AS WELL.>>Speaker: GREAT QUESTION, GREAT ANSWER. BRIEF QUESTION AND THEN WE HAVE TO MOVE ON.>>. [AWAY FROM MIC] >>Rick: HERE IS THE SHOCKING THING. IN 1985, DAVE NICHOLS WHO WAS AT PURDUE WAS A STUDENT PROTCGC OF. [NAME?] SO I HAD HIM MAKE A KILOGRAM OF MDMA. THIS WAS IN 1985.E ARE STILL USING THAT MDMA TODAY AFTER ALL OF THOSE YEARS. IT’S AN INCREDIBLY STABLE MOLECULE. WE CAN’T USE IT IN PHASE 3 BECAUSE IT’S NOT GMP BUT IT’S JUST AS PURE AS OUR GMP SUPPLIES THEY’VE ALSO MADE THE PSILOCYBIN FOR THAT RESEARCH AND NOW THERE’S A LIBRARY AT PURDUE FOR THE PAPERS OF DAVE NICHOLS, STAN CROFT AND OTHERS. THERE GRAFTING AN INCREDIBLE REPOSITORY THERE. PURDUE WAS CRUCIAL IN THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE EARLY STAGES OF PSYCHEDELIC RESEARCH. I SHOULD ADD THAT DAVE CHARGED $4000. HE HAD A LOT OF GRADUATE STUDENTS WORKING FOR NOTHING FOR A KILOGRAM. HE GOT A GOOD DEAL. WE GOT A KILOGRAM AND 1/2 FOR $4000. NOW IT’S COSTING US AT LEAST 100 TIMES MORE THAN THAT PER KILOGRAM AND IT’S NOT ANY MORE PURE OR BETTER IT’S JUST DOCUMENTED IN THE WHOLE PRODUCTION PROCESS IS EASIER AND THEY ARE TESTED IN DIFFERENT WAYS. PURDUE IS GREAT AND SO THE UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN CAN FOLLOW IN THE PURDUE FOOTSTEPS. [LAUGHTER] >>Speaker: WE DEVELOPED KETAMINE, PEOPLE. RICK, THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH. [APPLAUSE] >>Speaker: I AM GOING TO WELCOME UP ANOTHER GRADUATE STUDENT WHO IS GOING TO INTRODUCE OUR NEXT SPEAKER. EMMA TRAMMEL. YOU WILL HEAR FROM HER LATER. I HAVE TO SAY ONE THING. WHEN EMMA CAME TO THE UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN OUR CENTER WAS DOING WHAT WE WANTED IT TO DO CREATE A HOME. EMMA COULD HAVE GOTTEN HER PHD AT YALE IN NEUROSCIENCE. SHE TURNED IT DOWN TO COME HERE TO WORK AT THE CENTER FOR CONSCIOUSNESS SCIENCE SO THAT SHE COULD REALLY BE OPEN ABOUT HER INTEREST AND HAVE BEEN ACTIVELY ENCOURAGED AND THAT JUST MEANT THE WORLD TO US AND REALLY SIGNALED A TURNING POINT. EMMA, COME ON UP AND YOU CAN INTRODUCE OUR NEXT GUEST.>>Emma: THANK YOU FOR THOSE KIND REMARKS AND THANK YOU FOR THAT AMAZING TALK. OUR NEXT SPEAKER IS CHRIS TIMMERMAN FROM THE IMPERIAL COLLEGE LONDON.HRIS OBTAINED HIS BACHELORS OF SCIENCE IN PSYCHOLOGY IN SANTIAGO, CHILE AND A MASTERS OF SCIENCE IN COGNITIVE NEUROSCIENCE AT THE UNIVERSITY OF BOLOGNA IN ITALY. HE IS CURRENTLY COMPLETING A PHD AT IMPERIAL COLLEGE OF LONDON WHERE HE IS LEADING A PROJECT FOCUSING ON THE EFFECTS OF THE PSYCHEDELIC COMPOUND TMT ON THE HUMAN BRAIN AND EXPERIENCE. HE IS INTERESTED IN THE USE OF METHODS BRIDGING THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN EXPERIENCE AND CHANGES IN BRAIN ACTIVITY AND NON-ORDINARY STATES OF CONSCIOUSNESS AS WELL AS THE IMPACT OF PSYCHEDELICS AT DIFFERENT TEMPORAL AND SPATIAL SCALES BOTH WITHIN AND BETWEEN SUBJECTS. PLEASE GIVE A WARM WELCOME TO CHRIS TIMMERMAN. [APPLAUSE] >>Chris: THANK YOU. THANK YOU JOHN AND THE GRADUATE STUDENTS FOR THE INVITATION TO THIS SYMPOSIUM AND ALSO GEORGE FOR MAKING IT HAPPENED. THANKS FOR THE INVITATION. I AM HERE TO SPEAK A BIT ABOUT THE RESEARCH THAT I’VE BEEN DOING FOR THE PAST FOUR YEARS AT IMPERIAL COLLEGE IN LONDON. WHERE WE ARE EMPLOYING DMT WITHIN THE WHERE CHANGING A BIT YEARS FROM THE EXCELLENT TALK THAT RICK GAVE INTO THE NEUROSCIENCE WE ARE USING THIS NARROW APPROACH AWAY AND WHICH WE CAN TRY TO EXTEND BAND THE EFFECTS OF TMT ON THE BRAIN WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF HUMAN EXPERIENCE. THIS IS A BRIDGE WE ARE TRYING TO BUILD AND WE ARE TRYING TO GET AN IDEA OF THIS IMMERSIVE EXPERIENCE WHICH IS ENABLED BY DMT. USING THIS AS A WAY TO PROBE INTO OTHER WAYS AND METHODS IN WHICH OTHER PSYCHEDELIC EXPERIENCES OR OTHER STATES OF CONSCIOUSNESS COULD RELATE TO IT AS WELL. SO TO BEGIN, I WILL JUST DO A VERY BROAD SORT OF INTRODUCTION. WHAT IS THE CULTURAL BACKDROP AGAINST THIS RESEARCH HAPPENING? SO WE KNOW PSYCHEDELIC DRUGS HAVE BEEN USED BY INDIGENOUS CULTURES FOR HUNDREDS IF NOT THOUSANDS OF YEARS. SO WE HAVE SOME EVIDENCE THAT MESCALINE HAS BEEN USED FOR 5000 YEARS. [WORD?] OVER 5000 YEARS. AND DMT THE EVIDENCE POINTS TO EVIDENCE OVER 4000 YEARS. THE OLDEST USE OF DMT USE COMES FROM SOUTH AMERICA. IT’S THE USE OF. [WORD?] WHICH CONTAIN. [WORD?] IN THE EVIDENCE POINTS TO DRUG PARAPHERNALIA WHICH IS OVER 4000 YEARS. MORE RECENTLY THE USE OF. [WORD?] WE HAVE SOME EVIDENCE IT WAS POSSIBLY USED FOR AROUND 1000 YEARS OR A BIT LESS. I MENTION THIS BECAUSE IN A WAY OUR RESEARCH IS EMBEDDED WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF CONSCIOUSNESS RESEARCH. SO PSYCHEDELIC EXPERIENCES HAVE BEEN PART OF THE HUMAN STORY FOR QUITE A WHILE.O MANY SORT OF MODEL OF CONSCIOUSNESS WHICH DOES NOT TAKE INTO ACCOUNT THESE EXPERIENCES IS BY DEFAULT INCOMPLETE. SO THIS IS WHERE WE ARE TRYING TO DO WITH RESEARCH. WE ARE TRYING TO ACCOUNT THESE EXPERIENCES WHENEVER THE CONTEXT OF RESEARCH AND SEE HOW IT CAN PROVIDE SOME SORT OF INSIGHT INTO THAT. SO WHAT IS DMT IT STANDS FOR. [WORD?] IT’S A PSYCHEDELIC DRUG AS YOU CAN SEE HERE THE STRUCTURE OF THE DMT MODEL IS SIMILAR TO THE ONE OF SEROTONIN. IT’S KNOWN FOR INDUCING FAST ACTING AND RICH EXPERIENCES. SO USUALLY THE EXPERIENCE IS INDUCED BY DMT WHEN IT IS ADMINISTERED INTRAVENOUSLY HAPPEN WITHIN 5 TO 10 MINUTES. PEOPLE GO UP AND DOWN AND THEY HAVE STRONGLY IMMERSIVE EXPERIENCE VERY RICH IN TERMS OF THE CONTENTS AND ALSO DMT AS PART OF. [WORD?]. THAT IS FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO ARE NOT FAMILIAR WITH IT, IS A BREW THAT HAS BEEN TRADITIONALLY USED IN THE AMAZON FOR A RANGE OF DIFFERENT PURPOSES, AND VERY INTERESTINGLY IT’S A COMBINATION OF TWO DIFFERENT PLANT. ONE DMT CONTAINS DMT AND. [WORD?] WHICH ENABLE THE CONTENTS TO BE ACTIVE WHEN IT’S TAKEN ORALLY. VERY INTERESTING TECHNOLOGY OF SORTS THAT HAS BEEN DISCOVERED OR INVENTED IN AMAZONIA CULTURES. IT’S ALSO RELEVANT THE STUDY OF DMT GIVEN RECENT FINDINGS COMING FROM BRAZIL IN WHICH AYAHUASCA HAS BEEN USED FOR THE TREATMENT OF DEPRESSION. RECENT EVIDENCE SHOWING SIGNIFICANT REDUCTIONS OFF DEPRESSION IN THE FOLLOWING DAYS AND A WEEK AFTER THE ADMINISTRATION OF AYAHUASCA. SO UNDERSTANDING SOME OF THE MECHANISMS OF ACTION THAT CAN BE LEADING TO THESE THERAPEUTIC CHANGES IS VERY IMPORTANT. IT’S ALSO PART OF WHY WE DO THE RESEARCH. SO OUR RESEARCH IS BASICALLY FOCUSED OR THE APPROACH IN WHICH WE HAVE CONTEXTUALIZED THE RESEARCH IS THE ONE OF CHARTING SORT OF LIKE A COMPLICATED EXPERIENCE, A DIFFICULT VERY RICH EXPERIENCE IN WHICH WE TAKE INTO ACCOUNT EXPERIENCE IN A DISCIPLINE SORT OF APPROACH, A SCIENTIFIC WAY OF UNDERSTANDING FIRST PERSON INTIMATE SUBJECTIVE EXPERIENCES DESPITE TMT AS WELL AS THE BRAIN AFFECTS. FINALLY HOW CAN WE COMBINE THESE TWO LEVELS OF EXPLANATION? HOW CAN WE BETTER RELATE THE PHENOMENOLOGICAL EXPERIENCE AND THE BRAIN ACTIVITY FOR OUR AGE. WITHOUT AN AMBITION TO SOLVE THE VERY HARD DIFFICULT QUESTIONS OF CONSCIOUSNESS, BUT IMPROVING IN A PRAGMATIC WAY HOW CAN WE BETTER UNDERSTAND THIS ALTERED STATE OF CONSCIOUSNESS. SO WE HAVE ADMINISTERED DMT OVER 60 TIMES NOW IN OUR RESEARCH. THESE ARE SOME OF THE SKETCHES AND DRAWINGS FROM OUR PARTICIPANTS COMING OUT OF THE EXPERIENCES. AND WE SEE A WIDE VARIETY OF EXPERIENCES. REGARDLESS OF THE MEANS OUT THERE ON THE EXPERIENCE WE SEE BOTH GEOMETRICAL PATTERNS IMAGERY, ROOMS, OPEN SPACES, ACROBATICS BLACK AND WHITE IMAGES, VERY COLORFUL IMAGES ENTITIES, NOT ENTITIES, ABSTRACT IMAGES AND SO ON. WE HAVE A RICH WIDE VARIETY OF EXPERIENCES. WE HAVE CONDUCTED TWO SEPARATE STUDIES USING DMT. THE FIRST ONE WAS A PILOT PHASE, SO OUR END OBJECTIVE WAS TO GIVE DMT IN AN MRI SCANNER BUT BECAUSE DMT IS VERY INTENSE WE HAD TO PROCEED IN A. [WORD?] SET FASHION. [INDISCERNIBLE] IT’S NOT NECESSARILY THE MOST PLEASANT EXPERIENCE, THAT’S WHAT WE THOUGHT. SO WE DID AT FIRST THE PILOT STAGE IN WHICH WE RECORDED BRAIN ACTIVITY USING EEG AND WE GAVE IT TO 13 PARTICIPANTS AND WE INCREASED THE DOSE PROGRESSIVELY TRYING TO TAP INTO THE PSYCHOLOGICAL SAFETY AND WHAT WOULD BE THE IDEAL DOSE TO BE GIVEN INSIDE OF AN MRI SCANNER. SOME INITIAL FINDINGS FROM THIS PILOT STUDY GAVE US SOME INSIGHT INTO, FOR EXAMPLE, THIS EXPERIENCE OF HIGH EMERGING INTO A DIFFERENT REALITY, A DIFFERENT DIMENSION AND WE FOUND THIS WAS THE HIGHEST RATED ITEM FOLLOWING DMT ADMISSION AMONG OTHER ONES, AND WHEN USING YOUR STANDARDIZED QUESTIONNAIRES THAT ARE COMMONLY USED IN HUMAN RESEARCH WITH PSYCHEDELICS AND OTHER ALTERED STATES OF CONSCIOUSNESS, WE FOUND THAT DMT WAS STRONG, ELEMENTARY AND COMPLEX IMAGERIES OF ELEMENTARY IMAGERY RELATES TO GEOMETRICAL PATTERNS AND SO ON AND CONTACTS IMAGERY RELATES TO SCENES, FACES, OBJECTS AND SO ON. WHILE THIS RICH EXPERIENCE WAS UNFOLDING WE ALSO SAW THERE WAS A STRONG SENSE OF DISEMBODIMENT OR DISCONNECTION FROM BODILY PROCESSES. AND THIS IS QUITE INTERESTING BECAUSE IN A WAY, IT PROVIDES AN IDEA THAT DMT IS ABLE TO INTRODUCE A WORLD ANALOG, KIND OF LIKE A SIMULATION OF A RICH EXPERIENCE IN WHICH THE BODY IS PARTIALLY DETACHED FROM THE ENVIRONMENT. LIKE AVR STATE BUT MOST IMPORTANTLY SIMILAR TO THE IDEA OF DREAMING. WE ARE DREAMING OR SLEEPY WE ARE PARTIALLY DISCONNECTED FROM ANY SORT OF ENVIRONMENTAL INPUT AND NONETHELESS, WE HAVE A VERY SIGNIFICANT SIMULATION AND VIRTUAL EXPERIENCE HAPPENING. THIS IS QUITE INTERESTING BECAUSE IT PROVIDES A TEMPLATE AND IT PROVIDES A MODEL IN WHICH WE CAN TRY TO UNDERSTAND THIS IMMERSIVE EXPERIENCE. THIS VERY RICH CONTENT FULL EXPERIENCE. IN A CONTROLLED FASHION. IN THE LAB, WE CAN MINISTER DMT AND GENERATE THIS RADICAL STATE OF IMMERSION AND THEN BACK INTO A NORMAL WAKING STATE OF CONSCIOUSNESS SO WE CAN DO THIS WITHIN 10 TO 15 MINUTES. IT PROVIDES AN IDEAL WAY TO SEE, TO UNDERSTAND HOW THE SYSTEM IS BEING RADICALLY ALTERED OR BIASED IN THIS DMT STATE AND THEN HOW IT BUILDS BACK AGAIN. WE CAN LOOK INTO SOME OF THOSE MECHANISMS. AND THIS CAN PROVIDE POSSIBILITIES, FOR EXAMPLE, AND HOW IMAGE FORMATION OCCURS THROUGH THE DMT STATE AND OTHER ALTERED STATES OF CONSCIOUSNESS OR EVEN TRAINING. ONE OF THESE MECHANISMS WE ARE DISCONNECTED FROM THE ENVIRONMENT THAT ENABLE THE PROCESS OF IMAGE FORMATION OR MAYBE HOW CAN WE TRANSITION FROM SIMPLE IMAGERY TO METRICAL PATTERNS INTO COMPLEX IMAGERY? SO THESE ARE TWO DRAWINGS FROM THE SAME PARTICIPANT WHO FIRST SAW THESE GEOMETRICAL PATTERNS AND THEN EVOLVED INTO THIS KIND OF ATTRACTIVE EYE OF SORTS. SO THIS IS THE ROOM WHERE HE DID OUR FIRST EEG STUDY OR PILOT STUDY, SO WE HAVE A LOT OF AWARENESS AND ATTENTION TO THE CONTEXTUAL FACTORS AND HOW THEY INFLUENCE THE EXPERIENCE SO WE TRIED TO MAKE EVERYTHING AS NICE AS POSSIBLE, DRESS UP THIS CLINICAL ROOM SO PEOPLE CAN REALLY RELAX INTO THESE EXPERIENCE AS MUCH AS THEY CAN. THE OTHER PARTICIPANT IS WAITING FOR US TO BEGIN THE STUDY’S A VERY RELAXED SORT OF ENVIRONMENTS. AND WE MEASURED BRAIN ACTIVITY USING EEG. THE EEG, I’M GOING TO DO A BRIEF INTRODUCTION. THE IDEA IS THAT MEASURES RHYTHMS IN THE BRAIN AND THESE DIFFERENT RHYTHMS HAVE BEEN CLASSICALLY ASSOCIATED TWO DIFFERENT STATES OF CONSCIOUSNESS.FOR TWO DIFFERENT EXTERNAL ENVIRONMENTAL PRESERVATION’S AS WELL. SO A CRASH COURSE IN EEG. FOR EXAMPLE, THESE LOW-FREQUENCY DELTA AND THETA WAVES HAVE BEEN ASSOCIATED WITH SLEEP AND DREAMING. ALPHA WAVES ARE THE MOST PROMINENT RHYTHM IN THE HUMAN BRAIN. IT HAS BEEN ASSOCIATED ALSO WITH DEVELOPMENT WITHIN INDIVIDUALS WHO HAVE STRONGER ALPHA WAVES THAN CHILDREN AND SEEN PRIMARILY IN HUMAN BEINGS AS OPPOSED TO ANIMALS AND HAS BEEN INTERPRETED AS AN INHIBITORY MECHANISM OF SORTS. SO WHEN WE ARE PARTIALLY DISCONNECTED FROM THE ENVIRONMENT WHEN WE CLOSE OUR EYES ALPHA WAVES BECOME QUITE PROMINENT. THIS HAS BEEN INTERPRETED AS SOME SORT OF IDLE STATE, SOME SORT OF STATE IN WHICH VISUAL INPUT IS REDUCED, AND THESE AREAS IN THE BRAIN ARE KEPT KIND OF AT CHECK OR CONTROLLED THROUGH THESE AWFUL WAVES. SO WHAT HAPPENS WHEN WE OPEN OUR EYES, THE VISUAL INPUT ENTERS THROUGH THE EYE INTO THE VISUAL CORTEX AND WE SEE A MASSIVE REDUCTION OF THESE ALPHA WAVES. THIS ALPHA POWER THIS INHIBITORY MECHANISM BECOMES DE-SYNCHRONIZE. ANOTHER IMPORTANT RHYTHM IS THE BETA RHYTHM. THERE’S A BIT LESS UNDERSTANDING OF THE MECHANISMS OF THIS, BUT IT HAS BEEN CLASSICALLY ASSOCIATED ALSO AS AN INHIBITOR AND MECHANISM, OF OVER ACTS SO IT’S PROMINENCE IN MOTOR AREAS OF THE BRAIN, THIS BETA RHYTHM AND SIMILAR TO WHAT HAPPENS WITH VISUAL INPUT, ONCE MOVEMENT OCCURS, THERE’S MOVEMENT BEING DONE BY THE PARTICIPANTS AND THE RHYTHM IS RADICALLY DE-SYNCHRONIZE. AGAIN, THIS INHIBITORY MECHANISM. [INDISCERNIBLE] SENSATIONS. WHAT DID WE DO IN OUR RESEARCH? WE HAVE PARTICIPANTS LAYING DOWN. WE HAD THE EEG ON THEM. WE ADMINISTERED THE DMT AND THEN ON EVERY SINGLE PASSING MINUTE WE ASKED FOR. [WORD?] RATINGS A PHARMACOLOGICAL PARADIGM SO THE FIRST GROUP OF PEOPLE USUALLY RATED AT INTENSITY AROUND SIX FROM 0 TO 10 IN THE SECOND MINUTE I GOT A BIT MORE INTENSE AND THEN BY THE THIRD MINUTE, PEOPLE WERE VERY MUCH IMMERSED INTO WHAT FELT LIKE A RADICALLY DIFFERENT DIMENSION OR REALITY. AND THEN THERE WAS A VERY GRADUAL COME BACK INTO A NORMAL WAKING STATE OF CONSCIOUSNESS. AGAIN, MAPPING THE BEFORE AND AFTER ENDURING OF THIS EXPERIENCE WITH THE EEG.AND WE HAD SOME INITIAL EARLY FINDINGS ON THIS, THE MOST OBVIOUS FINDING WE FOUND WAS THESE ALPHA RHYTHMS REDUCTION. THIS IDEA THAT WHEN YOU HAD YOUR EYES CLOSED THERE’S AN INHIBITORY MECHANISM ASSOCIATED TO VISUAL INPUT AND WHAT WE SEE HERE ÃYOU SEE THEY RHYTHMS IN THE SCHOOL. BASICALLY THE MORE YELLOW, THE STRONGER THIS ALPHA RHYTHM AND THE MORE BLUE IT BECOMES THE LOWER THE MORE SYNCHRONIZED IT BECOMES. THE BASIC IDEA IS THAT THERE IS A MASSIVE REDUCTION OF THE ALPHA RHYTHM WHEN IT’S ADMINISTERED ALMOST SIMULATING PEOPLE OPENING THEIR EYES TO NEW EXPERIENCE AND INSTEAD PEOPLE HAVE THEIR EYES CLOSED ANYWAY BUT THE STRONG AMOUNT OF VISUAL INPUT THEY WERE GETTING WAS SIMULATING THIS ALMOST INTERPRETED AS THIS IDEA THERE WAS A PROGRESSIVE ENGAGEMENT AND IT WAS OBJECTIVELY FELT REALITY OF SORTS. WE ALSO SAW INCREASES IN. [WORD?] DISORDER OF BRAIN ACTIVITY SO WE HAVE MEASURES SUCH AS. [WORD?], ALGORITHMS AND THE SORT WHICH BASICALLY TELLS US ABOUT THE AMOUNT OF POSSIBILITIES THAT THE BRAIN SIGNAL CAN TAKE DURING THIS EXPERIENCE. AND WE SEE A RADICAL INCREASE IN BACK AND WE SEE THAT THIS IS CLOSELY ASSOCIATED TO THE INTENSITY OF THE EFFECTS RECEIVED BY PARTICIPANTS. AND WE ALSO SAW THAT THIS WAS CONFIRMED BY THE RELATIONSHIP OF THE BLOOD LEVELS OF DMT AND THESE DIFFERENT BRAIN SIGNALS OR SIGNATURES. AND THESE ARE INTERESTING FINDINGS, BUT THEY DON’T REALLY TELL US ANYTHING THAT IS REALLY NEW IN A WAY. WE HAVE SEEN THESE EFFECTS WITH LSD AND PSILOCYBIN AND AYAHUASCA AND THESE STRONG REACTIONS WITH. [WORD?] POWER AND INCREASES IN. [WORD?] OR SINGLE DIVERSITY WITH DIFFERENT PSYCHEDELIC DRUGS. INTERESTINGLY, STATES HAVE REDUCED STATES OF CONSCIOUSNESS SHOW REDUCED SIGNAL DIVERSITY OR REDUCED ENTROPY AND THE SAME HAPPENS WITH ANESTHESIA AND THIS FEEDS INTO THE STORY OR THIS NARRATIVE THAT POSSIBLY PSYCHEDELICS CAN HEIGHTEN THE LEVEL OF CONSCIOUSNESS, LEADING INTO THE POSSIBILITY THAT THESE COMPOUNDS MIGHT BE POSSIBLY USED ALSO TO RAISE LEVELS OF CONSCIOUSNESS AND DISORDERS OF CONSCIOUSNESS, FOR EXAMPLE ALTERED CONSCIOUS STATE THIS IS A THEORETICAL POSSIBILITY. IT’S STILL NEEDS TO BE PROVEN AND WE ARE WORKING ON SOME OF THESE THINGS AT THE MOMENT. SO AGAIN, THIS IS INTERESTING, BUT STILL, WE HAVE SOME NICE IMAGING FINDINGS, FINDINGS IN THE BRAIN, BUT WE DON’T HAVE REALLY ANY SORT OF SIGNIFICANT INSIGHT ON HOW DIFFERENT EXPERIENCES ARE RELATED TO THESE CHANGES IN BRAIN ACTIVITY. SO THE DMT EXPERIENCE IS HIGHLY IMMERSIVE. [INDISCERNIBLE] I’M GOING TO STOP THAT. [LAUGHTER] >>Chris: JUL OUT. THE IDEA IS THAT WE ARE MISSING SOMETHING ABOUT THE EXPERIENTIAL DIMENSION AND A BIG WAY. OUR APPROACH WAS TO STEP BACK AND TAKE THE EXPERIENCE MORE SERIOUSLY. THIS RELATES TO THE NOTION OF THE HARD PROBLEM OF CONSCIOUSNESS WHICH RELATES TO THIS IDEA WHICH GEORGE WAS SAYING PREVIOUSLY THAT THE CONNECTION BETWEEN BRAIN PROCESSES AND INTIMATELY FELT SUBJECTIVE EXPERIENCES IS STILL NOT EXPLAINED. THERE’S AN EXPLANATORY GAP WHICH WE STILL HAVE NOT RESOLVED AND PROBABLY WON’T RESOLVE FOR A WHILE BUT THERE’S A LOT OF PROGRESS BEING MADE IN THAT DIRECTION. THE PROBLEM IS THAT WITHIN NEUROSCIENTIFIC STUDIES FOR THE PAST DECADES, AND WITHIN CONSCIOUSNESS RESEARCH THEY HAVEN’T BEEN TAKEN TO THE LEVEL OF SERIOUSNESS THAT IT REQUIRES TO ANYWAY. SO WE TOOK THIS APPROACH AND TOOK THIS WEARY START FROM AND WE ARE TAKING A GUIDING THREAT. INSTEAD OF ELIMINATING AND REDUCING CONSCIOUS EXPERIENCES THROUGH BRAIN PROCESSES THE OPPOSITE ROAD CAN BE TAKEN. THAT OF TAKING EXPERIENCE SERIOUSLY. [INDISCERNIBLE] SO THIS WAS A NICE KIND OF LOOKING MODEL AND APPROACH TO THIS WHOLE THING. AT THE SAME TIME THE EXPERIENCE IS. [INDISCERNIBLE] NOT TAKEN FOR GRANTED THE OBVIOUS. SO INTROSPECTION IS DIFFICULT. IT DEMANDS AN APPRENTICESHIP AND REQUIRES PROGRESSIVE DEVELOPMENT OF A GENUINE EXPERTISE. THE GREATEST DIFFICULTY LIES IN THE FACT THAT. [NO AUDIO] IS MASKED BUT IT CAN PASS UNNOTICED DUE TO THE APPARENT EASE OF OTHER STATES OF MIND OR THOUGHT PROCESS OR EMOTIONS. AND THIS IS QUITE EVIDENT WITHIN THIS IDEA THAT TO BECOME AN EXPERT MEDITATOR YOU NEED YEARS AND YEARS OF THOUSANDS OF HOURS OF PRACTICE SO BECOME AN EXPERT OFF OF OUR OWN MENTAL PROCESSES IS NOT AN. [INDISCERNIBLE] UNDERTAKING. ALTHOUGH IT SEEMS LIKE THAT. SO THIS IS ILLUSTRATED BY THIS QUOTE BY. [NAME?]. IT’S NUMBER GIVEN TO US AND THAT IS THE WORD OF OBJECTS IN BOTH CASES WE ARE FACED WITH THE CONSTRUCTION ON THE BASIS OF AN INTERACTION BETWEEN THE SUBJECT AND THE WORLD AND BETWEEN THE SUBJECT AND ITSELF. SO WE HAVE THIS CHALLENGE. SO HOW CAN WE GENERATE THIS SORT OF APPRENTICESHIP? HOW CAN WE ENABLE A POSSIBILITY FOR OUR SUBJECTS TO BECOME EXPERTS OF THEIR OWN DMT EXPERIENCES OF SORTS? INSTEAD OF TRAINING THEM AND GIVING THEM A LOT OF DMT WE TOOK A DIFFERENT SORT OF APPROACH WHICH IS WE USE THIS INTERVIEW TECHNIQUE CALLED MICRO PHENOMENOLOGY SO THIS INTERVIEW TECHNIQUE BASICALLY CONSISTS OF A DISCIPLINED APPROACH ON HOW YOU CONDUCT THESE INTERVIEWS HOW DO YOU GET THESE FIRST-PERSON REPORTS FROM PARTICIPANTS. IN A WAY THAT YOU TRY TO REDUCE THE BIAS OF. [WORD?], LACK OF MEMORY AND SO ON AND TRYING TO PROGRESSIVELY ANCHOR THE EXPERIENCE OF DIFFERENT SENSORY MODALITIES AND DIFFERENT SENSE OF REGISTERS. SO WE COMBINED WITH THE INTENSITY RATINGS THAT WE ASK FROM PARTICIPANTS SO HERE YOU CAN SEE WE CHARTED THE INTENSITY X AXIS YOU HAVE THE MINUTES AND ONLY WHY YOU HAVE THE INTENSITY AND WE USE THIS DURING THE INTERVIEW TO HELP PEOPLE RECALL WHAT WAS HAPPENING AT DIFFERENT TIMES. AT THE BEGINNING THIS IS ONE PARTICIPANT.HE RECALLS NAUSEA AND GREEN LIGHTS AT THE BEGINNING OF THE EXPERIENCE. AND THEN DIFFICULTY BREATHING AND SUING AND FEELING INTENSE PRESSURE AND SEEING WALLS OF LIGHT THE EMERGENCE OF THOUGHTS AND CONFUSION LATER ON AND THEN RELAXED BREATHING STARTED HAPPENING. SO THE PARTICIPANT RELAXED A BIT MORE AND THEN LIGHTS APPEARED AND THEN SOME ENTITIES APPEARED AND HEALING SHADOWS AND THEN THESE SHADOWS WERE HAVING A RITUAL CHANTING AND DANCING AND SO ON. THIS ENABLED US TO DEVELOP THIS DMT WITH EACH PARTICIPANT, THIS PROGRESSION OF DIFFERENT EFFECTS. AND HOW THESE DIFFERENT EFFECTS MIGHT BE HAPPENING AT THE SAME TIME, SO THIS SYNCHRONIC AND DIACHRONIC DIMENSIONS OF EXPERIENCE. SOCRATIC DIMENSIONS MEANS DIFFERENT DIMENSIONS OF EXPERIENCES HAPPENING AT THE SAME TIME. WE WERE ABLE TO MAP THE FACIAL BODY AND EMOTIONAL DOMAINS ACROSS PARTICIPANTS. THIS IS AN AVERAGE ACROSS ALL THE PARTICIPANTS REGARDING THEIR DMT EXPERIENCE. BROADLY SPEAKING, WE SAW THAT WITHIN THE FIRST MINUTE THERE WAS A VERY STRONG FELT RUSHED IN THE BODY BY PARTICIPANTS, WHICH BY THE SECOND MINUTE WAS THE OPPOSITE EFFECT, SO PEOPLE STOPPED RECEIVING THEIR BODIES HAD A STRONG SENSE OF DISASSOCIATION AND AS THIS WAS HAPPENING, THIS SORT OF VIRTUAL SPACE STARTED TO OCCUR WITH THE VISUAL DOMAIN BEING VERY HIGHLY INCREASED AND BOTH OF THESE EFFECTS WERE DYING DOWN AND THE MORE EMOTIONAL COGNITIVE PROCESSES STARTED TO OCCUR. AGAIN, THIS IDEA THAT ALSO HIGH DEGREES OF IMMERSION ARE ALMOST KIND OF LIKE ANTI-CORRELATED WITH EMOTIONAL OR INTEGRATION PROCESSES. AND THIS INTERESTINGLY MIGHT EVEN PROVIDE SOME INSIGHTS OF WHY THESE EXPERIENCES MIGHT NOT BE THE BEST TO CONDUCT IN PSYCHOTHERAPY PROCESSES IN A WAY PSYCHEDELICS PROVIDE THIS LONG EXPERIENCE IN WHICH PEOPLE CAN BECOME IMMERSED, THEY COME OUT OF IT A BIT AND THEY REFLECT ON THEIR EXPERIENCES AND THEY GET IMMERSED AGAIN AND YOU HAVE THIS. [WORD?] PROCESS. SO POSSIBLY WHAT’S HAPPENING IN DMT IS BECAUSE IT’S ONE STRONG IMMERSIVE EXPERIENCE AND THEN OUT OF IT, THIS. [WORD?] PROCESS MIGHT BE A BIT REDUCED. SO WE TOOK THESE DIMENSIONS OF EXPERIENCES AND WE TOOK OUR IMAGING FINDINGS AND TRY TO GENERATE A CONVERSATION BETWEEN THEM. WHAT WE FOUND WAS THE VISUAL IMAGERY WAS STRONGLY ASSOCIATED WITH INCREASES IN DELTA AND THETA FREQUENCIES AND REDUCTION IN ALPHA FREQUENCIES. VERY MUCH CONSISTENT WITH NEURAL SIGNATURES FOR TRAININGS. PEOPLE TRAINING. WE HAVE NOW A PHENOMENOLOGICAL SIMILARITY, THIS IDEA OF A SIMULATION OF SORT BUT AT THE SAME TIME A NARROW SIGNATURE WHICH IS VERY SIMILAR. BODILY EFFECTS WE SAW WERE PARTICULARLY ASSOCIATED TO DECREASES IN BETA, CENTRAL BETA COMPONENTS ARE VERY CONSISTENT WITH THIS LITERATURE MOTOR ACTIONS AND SOMATIC SENSATIONS IN CENTRAL AREAS OF THE BRAIN AND BETA RHYTHMS AND EMOTIONALLY ÃEMOTIONALLY LINKED TO. [WORD?] AND ALPHA WAVES. THIS IDEA THAT HIGHER LEVELS OF. [WORD?] OR DISORDER MAY POSSIBLY ENABLE THE BRAIN TO ACCESS A LARGER AMOUNT OF REPERTOIRE OF STATES AND MAYBE EVEN EMOTIONS. SO THESE FINDINGS, THIS NEURAL PHENOMENOLOGICAL APPROACH ENABLES US TO SEE SOMETHING THAT WE ARE NOT CAPTURING WITH OUR OTHER MEASURES, THIS IDEA THAT THETA WAVES BECOME PROMINENT IN THE BECOME PROMINENT PARTICULARLY DURING THE IMMERSIVE PART OF THE DMT EXPERIENCE. THIS IS INTERESTING BECAUSE THETA WAVES HAVE BEEN ASSOCIATED TO ACTIVITY IN THE TEMPORAL LOBES IN HUMAN BEING’S TEMPORAL LOBE ALSO REALLY HIPPOCAMPUS LIVES. IT’S BEEN TIED TO FUNCTIONS LIKE MEMORY, SCENE CONSTRUCTION, SPATIAL MEDICATION AND IMAGINATION. TEMPORAL LOBE HAS ALSO BEEN ASSOCIATED TO NOT ONLY PSYCHEDELIC IMAGERY OR PSYCHEDELIC STATES BUT ALSO DREAMING ITSELF THE TEMPORAL LOBE EPILEPSY AND OTHER ALTERED STATES OF CONSCIOUSNESS SUCH AS THOSE INDUCED BY KETAMINE AND OF ALTERED STATES OF CONSCIOUSNESS INDUCED BY RESPIRATION. WE ARE STARTING TO FIND SOME COMMONALITIES ON THE NEURAL SIGNATURES ON DIFFERENT ALTERED STATES OF CONSCIOUSNESS WHICH MIGHT ENABLE SOME SORT OF LINK BETWEEN HOW THESE DIFFERENT EXPERIENCES AND MORE IMPORTANTLY WHAT ASPECT OF THESE DIFFERENT EXPERIENCES MIGHT RELATE TO DIFFERENT EFFECTS IN THE BODY. AND NOW I’M GOING TO PRESENT SOME PRELIMINARY RESULTS ON SOME OF OUR STUDY ÃOUR IMAGING STUDY. SO AFTER WE GAVE DAYS DMT DOSES TO PARTICIPANTS IN THE PILOT STAGE WE MOVED INTO THE MRI SCANNER. SO WE HAVE 25 PARTICIPANTS WE GAVE TWO DAYS DOSES OF DMT TO EACH OF THEM WOULD GIVE A MEDIUM TO HIGH DOSE AND WE COLLECTED DATA ON BOTH INTENSITY RATINGS AND RESTING STATE. WE HAD ONE SESSION IN WHICH DMT WAS GIVEN A MASK FOR INTENSITY AND ANOTHER SESSION WHICH THEY JUST HAD TO LIE THERE. AND WE MEASURE BRAIN ACTIVITY BOTH WITH EEG AND MRI AND THESE ARE PRELIMINARY FINDINGS ON THAT. BASICALLY, WE FOUND THAT ALL THESE MAJOR NETWORKS IN THE BRAIN AFTER ADMINISTERING DMT BECAME MASSIVELY REDUCED. THE INTEGRITY OF THE NETWORKS OF USUAL SEGREGATION IN WHICH THE BRAIN IS WORKING IS MASSIVELY IMPAIRED BY DMT, WHICH IS SIMILAR TO WHAT WE FIND IN SOME OF THE LST WORK THAT THE GROUP HAS DONE. BUT ALSO, INTERESTINGLY, WE FOUND THAT SEGREGATION BETWEEN SENSORY AREAS AND NETWORKS ASSOCIATED TO HIGH LEVELS OF OBSTRUCTION BECOME REDUCED. IT’S ALMOST LIKE AN INTEGRATION BETWEEN THESE DIFFERENT NETWORKS, BETWEEN SENSORY NETWORKS AND HIGH-LEVEL NETWORKS OF SORTS. AND THIS IS QUITE INTERESTING ANYWAY BECAUSE THERE’S EVIDENCE POINTING TOWARDS THESE NETWORKS FOLLOWING SOME SORT OF HIERARCHY IN THE BRAIN IN WHICH SENSORY NETWORKS ARE THE LOW-LEVEL OF THE HIERARCHY AND ARE SEPARATED FROM HIGH-LEVEL NETWORKS LIKE. [WORD?] NETWORK. WHAT WE FOUND WAS THAT THE USUAL HIERARCHY OR SEPARATION OF THESE NETWORKS BECOME SIGNIFICANTLY DISRUPTIVE. USUALLY SEGREGATED NETWORKS START TO BECOME INTEGRATED AGAIN. AND THESE EFFECTS AND THE BRAIN AND THE BRAIN NETWORKS LIKELY ASSOCIATED TO SOME OF THE INTERESTING PHENOMENOLOGY AGAIN WE HAVEN’T SEEN WITH OUR PARTICIPANTS SUCH AS EXPRESSIVE EXPERIENCES INDUCED BY THE. [WORD?] SO THIS IDEA AFTER DMT IS ADMINISTERED PEOPLE AND COMPANIES ENTITIES MIGHT BE RELATED TO THE FACT THAT THE IMAGERY MIGHT BE RELATED TO THIS NOTION OF PROCEEDING AND COMMUNICATED. [WORD?] A HIGH-LEVEL PHENOMENON. THIS PARTICIPANT RECOUNTS THE SHADOWS OF. [WORD?] AS IF I HAD AN ACCIDENT CHANTING OR WAVING THEIR HANDS AND THEY WERE PUTTING THEIR HANDS ON ME AS IF THEY WERE HEALING ME. AND ALSO POSSIBLY THESE KIND OF AFFECTS MY RELATE TO SOME OF THE THINGS WE HAVEN’T SEEN WITH DMT, HOW IT RELATES IN EXPERIENCES OR OTHER SORTS OF STATES OF CONSCIOUSNESS WHICH ARE NOT INDUCED BY DRUG EXPERIENCES WHICH ARE NONETHELESS VERY, VERY STRIKING. AND FINALLY, PRESENTING SOME PRELIMINARY DATA ON CLINICAL POSSIBILITIES OF DMT ADMINISTRATION. WE FOUND THAT FOLLOWING A SINGLE ADMINISTRATION OF DMT THERE WAS SIGNIFICANT REDUCTIONS IN THESE DEPRESSIONS OF COURSE NOW. PEOPLE WERE HEALTHY WHO RECEIVED THESE REDUCTIONS ONE WEEK AFTER AND IN THE PERSONALITY TRAIT AND. [WORD?] WHICH IS CLOSE TO DEPRESSION. SO WITH THE RESEARCH AGAIN GOING BACK CHARTING OR MAPPING IS VERY IMMERSIVE AND VERY COMPLICATED TERRAIN OF SORTS BY TAKING EXPERIENCES SERIOUSLY AND TRYING TO UNDERSTAND TERMINOLOGY TO THE BEST OF ITS EXTENT AND RELATING THAT BRAIN ACTIVITY. AND HOPEFULLY WITH THIS, WHAT WE ARE TRYING TO DO WITH THIS KIND OF APPROACH IS MOVING BEYOND THE USUAL. [WORD?] OF DIFFERENT CONSCIOUS STATES SO THIS IS THE PREVAILING SORT OF MODEL IN WHICH YOU HAVE LEVELS OF CONSCIOUSNESS AND YOU HAVE CONTENTS OF CONSCIOUSNESS AND YOU ARE TRYING TO PLACE DIFFERENT STATES OF CONSCIOUSNESS WITHIN THIS TWO-DIMENSIONAL SPACE. THIS IS INTERESTING AND THIS IS PARTICULARLY RELEVANT FOR MAKING CLINICAL DECISIONS. NONETHELESS, WE ARE TRYING TO MAYBE TAKE A MULTIDIMENSIONAL APPROACH. WE MOVE BEYOND THOSE TWO DIMENSIONS, HOPEFULLY WITH THE IDEA TO TRY TO REACH A BETTER UNDERSTANDING WHAT IT FEELS LIKE TO BE IN A SPECIFIC STATE OF CONSCIOUSNESS BOTH AT THE PHENOMENOLOGICAL LEVEL AND AT THE NEUROLOGICAL LEVEL. AND I WOULD LIKE TO ACKNOWLEDGE ALL OF THE COLLABORATORS, BY SUPERVISORS AT IMPERIAL AND ESPECIALLY ALL OF OUR PARTICIPANTS IN THE STUDY AND THANK YOU FOR YOUR ATTENTION. [APPLAUSE] >>George: THANK YOU SO MUCH. THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE. THANK YOU FOR THAT TALK. BEFORE WE START QUESTIONS I THINK WILL MAKE AN EXECUTIVE DECISION WE HAVE A REMOTE VIDEO FROM RICK STRASSMAN. IT MIGHT BE HELPFUL TO SHOW THAT THROUGH THE END OF THE LUNCH. AND WE CAN KIND OF RELAX A LITTLE BIT NOW AND HAVE A THOUGHTFUL DISCUSSION AND MAYBE EVEN REINTRODUCE SOME QUESTIONS FOR RICK AND THEN WE WILL TAKE A BREAK AND HAVE OUR GRADUATE STUDENTS AND THEN LUNCH. IS EVERYBODY FINE WITH THAT? DOES ANYBODY HAVE A BURNING SENSE OF URGENCY TO WATCH A VIDEO AFTER THIS? OKAY.ITH THAT I WOULD ASK IF YOU HAVE QUESTIONS PLEASE GO TO THE MICROPHONE SO THE PEOPLE WHO ARE WATCHING IN THE OVERFLOW ROOM ARE LIVE STREAMING CAN HEAR AND IT CAN BE RECORDED.>>Speaker: I HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT THE VINO WAVE ACTIVITY. HOW MIGHT YOU EXPLAIN THAT IT DECREASES EVEN THOUGH YOU HAVE FEELINGS OF DISEMBODIMENT. HOW IS THAT NOT ANALOGOUS TO THE VISUAL?>>Chris: THAT’S AN INTERESTING QUESTION BECAUSE IN A WAY IT RELATES TO THE IDEA ÃI’M SORRY I’M GOING LIKE THIS. HOPE NOT TO GIVE YOU ALL DIZZY. THE IDEA IS THAT WHAT WE ARE TRYING TO DO IS CORRELATE ANYWAY THAT BLUE LINE HERE WITH THE EFFECTS IN THE BRAIN. SO THE IDEA IS IF YOU HAVE MORE BODY OF FACTS YOU HAVE STRONGER REDUCTIONS OF BETA WAVES. AND THAT’S VERY MUCH CONSISTENT WITH THE LITERATURE. SO IT MAPS OUT ÃIT KIND OF INVERSELY CORRELATES. THE STRONGER YOUR BODILY EXPERIENCE EVEN THOUGH YOU HAVE ASSOCIATION WITH SOME POINT YOU HAVE STRONG INTENSITY AT THE BEGINNING OF THE EXPERIENCE. DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? STATEMENT DISEMBODIMENT IS ALSO A BODILY EXPERIENCE?>>Chris: THAT’S PART OF THE BODY EXPERIENCE.>>George: SOMETHING SIMILAR HAPPENS WITH KETAMINE WHERE YOU GET A DEPRESSION OF DATA AND A STRONG SENSE OF DISEMBODIMENT. OVER HERE, SIR. TURN THE MIC ON. PERFECT.>>Speaker: COULD YOU ELABORATE ON THE PART ABOUT ÃYOU TALKED BRIEFLY ABOUT THE NEAR-DEATH EXPERIENCE AND COULD YOU BRING THAT SCREEN BACK UP SO I COULD TAKE A LOOK AT IT?>>Chris: I DON’T HAVE THE USUAL SLIDER HERE ÃHERE WE GO. BASICALLY, WE ADMINISTERED THIS NEAR-DEATH EXPERIENCE QUESTIONNAIRE WHICH IS CONSIDERED KIND OF LIKE THE BEST MEASURE OUT THERE TO DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT SOMEONE HAD UNDERGONE A NEAR-DEATH EXPERIENCE, AND WE GAVE IT TO OUR PARTICIPANTS AFTER THE EXPERIENCE AND AT THE SAME TIME WE COMPARED IT WITH A GROUP OF PEOPLE WHICH HAD ACTUALLY UNDERGONE NEAR-DEATH EXPERIENCES, AND WE FOUND THAT MOST OF THE ITEMS IN THAT SCALE WERE COMPARABLE BETWEEN THESE TWO GROUPS. WE ALSO FOUND ÃSO THIS IS YOUR THRESHOLD FOR AN OFFICIAL NEAR DEATH EXPERIENCE ACCORDING TO THIS QUESTIONNAIRE AND WE FOUND THAT ALL OF OUR PARTICIPANTS IN THE DMT GROUP SCORED ABOVE THAT THRESHOLD. SO THAT IN A WAY INTERESTING. IT PROVIDES SOME SORT ÃA BIT OF EVIDENCE INTO THIS NOTION WHICH HAS BEEN FOR A WHILE NOT ONLY DMT BUT ALSO OTHER PSYCHEDELICS MIGHT INDUCE NEAR DEATH LIKE STATES BUT AT THE SAME TIME IT’S AN INITIAL SORT OF STEP. THE NEAR-DEATH EXPERIENCE IS A COMPLEX EXPERIENCE AND HAS VARIABILITY BETWEEN PEOPLE. WHAT ONE PERSON CALLS A NEAR-DEATH EXPERIENCE, AND OTHER PERSON MIGHT FIND RADICALLY DIFFERENT. WE ARE STARTING TO FIND SOME COMMONALITIES IN THAT, SO THAT WAS THE INITIAL. [WORD?].>>George: ANY QUESTIONS ON THE SIDE?>>Speaker: I WAS WONDERING IF YOU CAN SPEAK ON SOME OF THE EXPERIENCE PEOPLE HAD ON DMT AND ALSO I HEARD A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT USE DMT SAY. [WORD?] SO I WAS WONDERING IF ANY PARTICIPANTS REPORTED THAT?>>Chris: THE EXPERIENCES WERE USUALLY LIKE I SAID QUITE VARIED. WE HAD PEOPLE WHO HAD BOTH COLORFUL EXPERIENCES AND VERY RICH IN TERMS OF CONTENTS BEING IN PLACES, MAYBE EVEN KIND OF PROTO- THERAPEUTIC IF YOU WILL. SOME PEOPLE HAVING STRONG INSIGHTS ABOUT THEIR BIOGRAPHICAL LIFE. BUT AT THE SAME TIME, IT WAS VERY VARIED. WE DIDN’T GET A VERY STRONG THING. THE COMMONALITIES OF EXPERIENCES WE FOUND WERE IN THESE KIND OF LIKE DIFFERENT SENSORY DOMAINS WHICH IS LIKE A BROADWAY OF TRYING TO UNDERSTAND EXPERIENCES. WHICH TALKS MORE ABOUT THE STRUCTURE OF EXPERIENCES MORE THAN THE CONTENTS OF EXPERIENCE. NONETHELESS, AROUND HALF OF THE PARTICIPANTS, ACCORDING TO MY RECOLLECTION, DID MENTION SOMETHING ABOUT MEETING THESE ENTITIES. NOBODY SAW MACHINE ELLS. I AM STRONGLY CONVINCED THIS WAS A MEME THAT WAS IMPLANTED BY. [WORD?] YEARS AGO. [LAUGHTER] >>Chris: IT MAKES IT COLORFUL AND INTERESTING. BUT I THINK THERE’S SOMETHING ABOUT MEANS THAT BOTH ENABLE A ROADMAP FOR PEOPLE TO EXPERIENCE BUT THEY CAN CURTAIL AND THEY CAN REDUCE THE AMOUNT OF POSSIBILITIES OF THESE EXPERIENCES.>>George: OVER HERE.>>Speaker: I HAVE A TECHNICAL QUESTION. YOU SPOKE A LOT ABOUT ENTROPY AND A PHYSICIST LIKE ME THAT MEANS SOMETHING VERY DIFFERENT. IN YOUR CASE I SUSPECT I MIGHT BE WRONG, THAT YOU ARE LOOKING AT CORRELATIONS. [INDISCERNIBLE] SPECTRUM IS THAT RIGHT?>>Chris: NO. IT’S A VERY TECHNICAL THING BUT NO. IT’S DONE ON THE RAW SIGNAL. SO WE ARE NOT DOING IT ON THE. [WORD?] SPECTRUM. AND WE CONTROL FOR EFFECTS OF POWER.>>Speaker: OKAY. AND THEN ALSO DID YOU LOOK INTO SOMETHING LIKE BLIND. [WORD?] SOCIALIZATION WITH YOUR EEG SIGNALS TO LOOK AT YOUR OFFER WAY.>>WE ONLY HAD 32 CHANNELS AND I TOOK THE CONSERVATIVE STANCE OF NOT LOOKING INTO SOURCES AT LEAST FOR THESE INITIAL FINDINGS. BUT WE ARE RUNNING SOME OF THOSE ANALYSES NOW.>>Speaker: THANK YOU.>>Speaker: I AM TONY KING FROM PSYCHIATRY HERE AT MICHIGAN. I’M WONDERING DID YOU ANALYZE COLLECTIVE GAMMA WAVE? AND I SUSPECT ÃI’M ASKING BECAUSE RICHARD DAVIDSON HAS SOME INTERESTING OLD DATA, VERY STRONG INCREASE IN GAMMA SYNCHRONY DURING STATES OF COMPASSION. DID YOU SEE ANYTHING IN THE GAMMA SPECTRUM?>>JoPEOPLE USUALLY AT CLENCH THEIR JAWS, BUT WE STILL INCLUDED IN THE ANALYSIS. WE DIDN’T FIND ÃIT’S WEIRD. WE DIDN’T FIND ANY INCREASES COMPARED TO PLACEBO BUT WHEN YOU COMPARED IT AGAINST THE BASELINE YOU SEE INCREASES IN GAMMA WAVES. I THINK THAT GAMMA WAVES ARE INVOLVED, BUT THEY ARE TRANSIENTLY INVOLVED.>>Speaker: INCREASE IN GAMMA POWER?>>Chris: YES. GAMMA POWER. SYNCHRONICITY GOES HAND-IN-HAND WITH POWER. [INDISCERNIBLE] BECAUSE OF THAT REASON. BASICALLY, HE KICKED ONE OF THE THINGS I WANT TO LOOK AT IN THE FUTURE AS LOOK AT THESE TRANSITIONS ÃTRANSITIONAL MOMENT TO SEE IF YOU HAVE THESE INCREASED CONNECTIVITY VERY MUCH LIKE WHAT HAS HAPPENED IN MEDITATION.>>Speaker: HAVE YOU LOOKED INTO A. [WORD?] DMT BECAUSE PEOPLE WHO HAVE EXPERIENCED. [WORD?] DMT AND HAD NEAR-DEATH EXPERIENCES CAN GO BACK TO THE. NEAR-DEATH EXPERIENCE SAY IS ALWAYS IN DISTINGUISHING AND THAT’S THE MAIN REASON WHY MOST OF THE PEOPLE WHO DO. [WORD?] DMT DO IT IS TO INDUCE A NEAR-DEATH EXPERIENCE.>>Chris: WE HAVE NOT LOOKED AT. [WORD?] DMT DIRECTLY. IT’S ONE OF THE THINGS WE’RE PLANNING TO DO IN THE FUTURE, FOR SURE. YEAH.THERE ARE REPORTS THAT APPEAR TO BE QUITE CONSISTENT IN THAT REGARD. [WORD?] DMT APPEARS TO BE LESS PERMEABLE TO SETTING A FAX BECAUSE IT’S SO OVERPOWERING AND SATURATING EXPERIENCES APPARENTLY ACCORDING TO REPORTS. SO WE ARE VERY INTERESTED IN THAT AND INTERESTED IN THE THERAPEUTIC POTENTIAL AS WELL.>>Speaker: I AM A PSYCHOLOGY STUDENT. I WAS CURIOUS IN YOUR PILOT STUDY YOU MENTIONED A RELAXING ENVIRONMENT. DOES NOT APPLY LITTLE TO NO ENVIRONMENTAL DISTRACTIONS? OR RELAXING AS A MUSIC AND SINCE OR ARE THERE OTHER FORMS OF STIMULI. IF SO, WAS THERE ANY CORRELATION BETWEEN THAT AND THE SPIRITUAL EXPERIENCE AND WHY DID YOU CHOOSE ONE ENVIRONMENT TO ANOTHER?>>WE HAD ÃWHEN WE WELCOMED PARTICIPANTS IS ALMOST LIKE WE MADE IT A SECULAR SACRED SPACE SO WE TRY TO REALLY ENABLE THE POSSIBILITY FOR PEOPLE TO FEEL RELAXED AND TO ACKNOWLEDGE THEY MIGHT BE GOING THROUGH SOMETHING IMPORTANT DURING THE EXPERIENCE WHILE KEEPING IT. [WORD?]. WE ARE NOT PROPOSING ANYTHING OF THIS SORT. WE HAVE MUSIC BEFORE AND AFTER THE EXPERIENCE, BUT WE COULD APPARENTLY TRY ÃWE DID NOT ASSESS HOW THEY PERCEIVED THE ENVIRONMENT WHICH IS A GOOD IDEA, WHICH IS SOMETHING WE COULD HAVE DONE TO SEE HOW THAT CORRELATED TO ANY OF THESE SIGNIFICANT FINDINGS. AGAIN, I DO THINK THAT THE WAY CONTEXTUAL EFFECTS INTERACT WITH THE EXPERIENCE IS HIGHLY COMPLICATED. IT’S SOMETHING WE ARE STILL TRYING TO GET OUR HANDS ON. IT’S ALSO PARTICULARLY RELEVANT FOR THERAPEUTIC PROCESSES AS WELL.>>THE AUDIENCE IS SO WONDERFUL WITH THESE QUESTIONS. WE WILL HAVE A FEW MORE AFTER THAT. I MIGHT BRING RICK UP AFTER TOO. SINCE WE HAVE MORE TIME.>>Speaker: FROM USERS EXPERIENCES THEY OFTEN ARE NOT AWARE THEY ARE ON A DRUG THAT THE PROCEDURE ALL THE OTHER EXPERIENCE IS TOTAL AND I’M CURIOUS IF THERE IS ÃIT SEEMS LIKE WITH MAYBE DMT THAT PEOPLE ARE STILL AWARE THEY ARE ON A DRUG AND THEY PERCEIVE REALITY IS NOT TOTAL. IS THERE A CONTINUING HOW THAT MIGHT INTERACT WITH THE EMOTIONAL INTENSITY AND ALSO DEPRESSION AND OTHER EFFECTS THAT GO ON AFTER THE EXPERIENCE.>>Chris: THAT’S AN INTERESTING QUESTION. SO ACCORDING TO THE REPORTS FROM OUR PARTICIPANTS, SOMETIMES PARTICIPANTS ÃI GUESS A GOOD CRITERIA IS SOMETIMES PARTICIPANTS FORGOT THEY WERE PART OF AN EXPERIMENT. THOSE WOULD BE INDICATIVE OF HIGH LEVEL OF IMMERSION. I THINK APPARENTLY THE REPORTS WITH. [WORD?] APPEAR TO BE MORE PROMINENT IN THAT DIRECTION BECAUSE IT’S A DYSPHORIC DRUG. SO THERE COULD BE A CASE BEING MADE THAT DYSPHORIC EXPERIENCES ARE MORE SALIENT AND CAN BE MORE CONVINCING THAN THOSE THAT HAVE A DIFFERENT SORT OF EMOTIONAL. [WORD?] ATTACHED TO THEM. AT VERY HIGH DOSES WE DID FIND PEOPLE WERE FORGETTING THEY WERE PART OF THE EXPERIMENT. WE HAD DISSOCIATION AND SOME PEOPLE NOT ANSWERING THE INTENSITY RATINGS WHEN THEY WERE VERY MUCH DEEP IN AS WELL.>>Speaker: SOLD TWO MORE QUESTIONS.>>Speaker: CAN YOU PULL UP THE SLIDE THAT HAS A BUNCH OF CONCENTRIC CIRCLES REPRESENTING THE DIFFERENT BRAIN NETWORKS AND IT SAYS HIERARCHY. THE VERY CIRCLE IN THE CENTER IS THE DEFAULT MODE NETWORK. I’M WONDERING IF THIS IS ROOTED IN THE ASSUMPTION THAT THE DEFAULT MODE NETWORK IS THE TOP OF THE FRAME HIERARCHY, OR WAS THE RATIONALE FOR WHY YOU HAVE PUT THIS LIKE THIS.>Chris: THIS IS A STUDY DONE BY DANIEL. [NAME?]. A BRAIN IMAGING NETWORK SCIENTIST, AND HE DOES AN ANALYSIS AND HE FOUND THERE WERE THESE GRADIENTS OF. [WORD?] ACROSS BRAIN NETWORKS. IT IS NOT A THEORETICALLY INFORMED KIND OF CHART, BUT IT’S STATUS, BASICALLY.>>Speaker: SO THE ONE CLOSER TO THE CENTER ARE THE ONLY HIERARCHY OF ORGANIZING THE BRING?>>Chris: NO. HIGHER LEVELS OF ABSTRACTION. YES.>>Speaker: THANK YOU.>>Speaker: THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THERE’S ONE SLOT AND IT SHOWS PARTICIPANTS DRAWINGS AND SOME OF THEM ARE VERY COLORFUL AND SOME WERE A DARK SKATE OR LAVIE WITH JUST A LIGHT PEN HOME AND I’M WONDERING IF PEOPLE FOUND ONE MORE BENEFICIAL OR MORE INTENSE THAN THE OTHER OR IF LESS COLORS MEANT A LITTLE BIT LESS LINGERING EXPERIENCE AFTERWARDS. IF THERE’S A WAY TO PROMPT MORE COLORFUL EXPERIENCES VERSUS JUST BLACK AND WHITE WEATHER HAVE TO DO WITH DIET OR STRICTNESS OF SPINE OR OTHER SUBSTANCES.>>Chris: USUALLY ÃWELL, IT’S HARD FOR ME TO SAY WITH THE SAMPLE SIZE THE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN COLORFUL AND NOT POWERFUL. WE HAD A COUPLE OF ACROBATIC EXPERIENCES OF SORTS. BUT SOME OF THEM ARE ALSO VISUAL REPRESENTATIONS OF A HIGH LEVEL OF CHAOS IN WHICH PARTICIPANTS WERE NOT ABLE TO RELATE A LOT OF CONTENT OUT OF IT. SO I DON’T KNOW. AND WITH COLORFUL EXPERIENCES? I DON’T KNOW EITHER. [LAUGHTER] >>George: WE WILL DO ONE MORE QUESTION AND THEN I THINK WE WILL BE ABLE TO TAKE A BREAK AND SHOT RICK.>>Speaker: THIS IS FOR DOCTOR STRASSMAN HE WAS CURIOUS AS TO THE DOSE THAT’S CORRELATING WITH THIS DATA. MAINLY I THINK HE WAS COMMENTING ON ENTITY PHENOMENONS BEING. [INDISCERNIBLE] 20 MILLIGRAMS.>>Chris: WE FOUND THAT THE 20 MILLIGRAMS DOSE DID INDUCE MORE KIND OF A. [WORD?] EXPERIENCE. AGAIN, I THINK THIS IDEA THAT EITHER YOU HAVE ENTITIES OR YOU DON’T HAVE ENTITIES IS A BIT LIKE A MISPERCEPTION. THIS ATTRIBUTING OF AGENCY TO EXTERNAL OBJECTS HAPPENS ALSO IN OTHERS EXPERIENCES WITH PSYCHEDELICS AND THINGS TO DIFFERENT EXTENTS THEY HAD ENTITIES AT LOWER DOSES BUT HAD SUCH A FEW MOTHER PARTICIPANTS IT’S HARD TO MAKE THE COMPARISON. BUT THERE’S A BIT OF THIS INTUITION THAT EVEN THIS DISTRIBUTION OF NATURE AS A LIVING ORGANISM WHEN PEOPLE ARE HAVING THEIR EXPERIENCES OUT IN THE WILD, IT’S ALSO KIND OF LIKE AN ENTITY LIKE PHENOMENA WHICH LINKS BACK TO THIS IDEA OF. [WORD?] AND THINGS OF THE SORTS.>>George: SO I WOULD LIKE TO THANKS CHRIS AND THINK ALL OF YOU FOR A WONDERFUL AND FOCUSED QUESTIONS I WANT TO THANK RICK AND WE WILL TAKE LAVIE ABOUT 15 MINUTES TO GATHER BACK TOGETHER AT 1045 BUT A ROUND OF APPLAUSE. [APPLAUSE] >>George: WE WILL SEE YOU IN HERE AT ABOUT 10:45.>>George: IF I COULD ASK YOU TO TAKE YOUR SEATS. I HOPE YOU ARE ENJOYING YOURSELF. THOSE WERE TWO WONDERFUL TALKS THIS MORNING AND A REALLY WONDERFUL SET OF QUESTIONS FROM A VERY ENGAGED AUDIENCE. SO AS I MENTIONED EARLIER, THIS HAS REALLY BEEN A GRADUATE STUDENT RUN SYMPOSIUM AND AM SO PROUD OF ALL OF OUR GRADUATE STUDENTS. WE ARE GOING TO HAVE A PANEL WHERE SOME GRAD STUDENTS ARE GOING TO TALK ABOUT SOME OF THEIR WORK AND WHERE THEY ARE GOING. WE HAVE THREE SPEAKERS. WE WON’T HAVE QUESTIONS IN BETWEEN BUT THEN AFTERWARDS WE CAN SPREAD THESE CHAIRS OUT AND HAVE A BIT OF A DISCUSSION. SO OUR FIRST SPEAKER IS NICK DENOMME. HE IS A PHD STUDENT IN THE DEPARTMENT OF PHARMACOLOGY AND HIS MENTOR WAS THE CHAIR OF PHARMACOLOGY IS OVER THERE. HELLO LORI AND WELCOME. AFTER THAT, WE WILL HAVE EMMA TRAMMEL THAT YOU HAVE ALREADY SEEN APPEAR AT THE PODIUM. SHE’S GETTING HER PHD IN NEUROSCIENCE AND WORKING WITH ME AND SOME OTHERS IN THE CENTER FOR CONSCIOUSNESS SCIENCE AND THEN THIRD WE WILL BE HEARING FROM MICHAEL BRITO WHO IS ALSO A PHD STUDENT IN THE NEUROSCIENCE GRADUATE PROGRAM WORKING WITH MYSELF, [WORD?] AND OTHERS. WITHOUT FURTHER ADO I WILL WELCOME UP NICK, WHO IS GOING TO TALK ÃGIVE US SOME HISTORICAL PERSPECTIVE, I BELIEVE. WELCOME, NICK. [APPLAUSE] >>Nick: HELLO, EVERYBODY. THANK YOU GEORGE. GOOD MORNING AND THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR COMING. I AM NICK DENOMME I’M A PHD STUDENT I’M GOING TO DEVIATE IN TALKING ABOUT ONGOING RESEARCH AND PSYCHEDELICS AND TRY TO REMIND US OF THE IMPORTANCE THAT PSYCHEDELIC DRUGS HAVE PAID ON THE FOUNDATIONS OF NEUROSCIENCE. SO THE TITLE OF MY TALK IS THE TOOLS OF PERCEPTION. AND SO PSYCHEDELIC DRUGS HAVE SERVED AS VITAL TOOLS TO STUDY THINGS LIKE BINAURAL CORRELATIONS OF CONSCIOUSNESS WHICH WE HEARD ABOUT EARLIER TODAY AND WE WILL HEAR ABOUT LATER. THINGS LIKE NEUROTRANSMISSION AND SOME OF MY COLLEAGUES WILL DISCUSS THAT AND SOMETHING I WANT TO TALK ABOUT WHICH IS THE BIOCHEMICAL BASIS OF BEHAVIOR IN MENTAL ILLNESS. I WANT TO START BY DEFINING PSYCHEDELICS. PSYCHEDELIC DRUGS HAVE BEEN REFERRED TO AS MANY THINGS. THEY WERE ORIGINALLY CALLED HALLUCINOGENIC’S. THE TERM HALLUCINOGENS HAS ITS ROOTS ON A FAMOUS WORK BY A MAN NAMED LOUIS LEVINE. LOUIS LEVINE IS CONSIDERED BY MANY TO BE THE FATHER OF MODERN PSYCHOPHARMACOLOGY. HE SURVEYED ALL OF THE COMMON PSYCHOACTIVE DRUGS THAT WERE AVAILABLE IN THE EARLY 20TH CENTURY. HE DIVIDED THESE DRUGS INTO FIVE DIFFERENT CLASSES AND ONE OF THESE CLASSES HE CALLED FANTASTIC SIGNATORY. HE DEEMED THESE DRUGS. [WORD?] AGENTS WHICH FOCUSED SINCE FEELINGS ARE GREAT VARIETY OF FORMS. LATER ON THEY WERE DEFINED SCIENTIFIC AND MEDICAL LITERATURE AS A SIGH, MEDICS. THE TERM SIGH, MEDIC WAS COINED IN 1955 BY A FAMOUS NOROVIRUS NAME ROVTAR. ROSS GERRARD USED THIS TERM TO DESCRIBE PSYCHEDELIC DRUGS BECAUSE THEY CAN PRODUCE TRANSIENT AND REVERSIBLE STATES OF PSYCHOSIS. THEY CAN MIMIC PSYCHOSIS AND SOME SYMPTOMS FOUND. TWO VERY IMPORTANT FOR GARRISON PSYCHEDELIC HISTORY A FAMOUS AUTHOR NAMED AUGUST. [NAME?] AND A PSYCHIATRIST NAMED HUMPHRY OSMOND DID NOT DID NOT ENJOY THIS DEFINITION. THEY THOUGHT IT WAS PESSIMISTIC AND IT DID NOT REFER TO SOME OF THE MORE POSITIVE TRANSFORMATIVE EFFECTS THESE DRUGS CAN HAVE SO IN CORRESPONDING ABOUT THINGS IN TERMS BY WHICH DEFINE THESE DRUGS. AND SO IN THEIR CORRESPONDENCE AUGUST. [NAME?] SAID TO MAKE THE SUBLIME TAPE 1/2 GRAM OF. [INDISCERNIBLE] DESPITE BEING THE MORE POETIC OF THE TWO HUMPHRY OSMOND RESPONDED AND SAID. [INDISCERNIBLE] JUST TAKE A PINCH OF PSYCHEDELIC. [LAUGHTER] >>Nick: HUMPHRY OSMOND PROPOSED THIS TERM IN 1957 AT THE ANNUAL MEETING OF THE ACADEMY OF SCIENCES AND THE REST IS PSYCHEDELIC HISTORY. NOW, THE GREAT PSYCHEDELIC CHEMIST ALEXANDER SHELDON ONCE SAID IF THERE’S CONFUSION ON DEFINING THESE DRUGS AND THERE’S CHAOS AND DEFINING THEIR EFFECTS. NOW AS A PHARMACOLOGY STUDENT THERE IS A COMPREHENSIVE TEXTBOOK OR A BIBLE THAT WE REFER TO WHAT WE ARE LOOKING FOR DEFINITIONS OF CLASSES OF DRUGS. THIS IS CALLED GOODMAN AND GILMAN’S PHARMACOLOGICAL BASIS OF THERAPEUTICS. I FOUND A VERY BEAUTIFUL DEFINITION THAT WAS PRESENT IN AN EARLY SEDITION WHICH THEY DESCRIBE PSYCHEDELIC DRUGS BASING THE FEATURE THAT DISTINGUISHES THE PSYCHEDELIC AGENTS FROM OTHER CLASSES OF DRUGS IS THEIR CAPACITY ARE LIKELY TO INDUCE AND PROPEL STATE OF ALTERED PERCEPTION THOUGHT OR FEELING THAT ARE NOT EXPERIENCE AN OTHERWISE TIMES OF DREAMS OR RELIGIOUS EXULTATION. I PARTICULARLY LIKE THIS DEFINITION BECAUSE IT’S FROM AN AUTHORITATIVE SOURCE AND IT DEFINES MORE POSITIVE ASPECTS OF PSYCHEDELICS.SO NOW THAT I HAVE DEFINED HISTORY OF MINIMUM-WAGE BLINDNESS, I WANT TO TELL A SHORT STORY ABOUT HOW LSD WAS INSTRUMENTAL AND IMPORTANT IN OUR UNDERSTANDING SEROTONIN AND NEUROSCIENCE. SO THE ORIGINS OF SEROTONIN BEGAN WITH A PREMIER ITALIAN CHEMIST NAMED. [NAME?] HE WORKED ON MANY BIOGENIC MEANS ANY IDENTIFIED A COMPOUND PRESENT IN THE ENTERIC NERVOUS SYSTEM AND THE GUT THAT PART. [INDISCERNIBLE] CONTRACTION OF THE INTESTINES. [NAME?] NAMED THIS COMPOUND. [WORD?]. THIS IS A MORE RECENT ESSENCE SHOWING THAT PARENTING IS PRESENT IN. [WORD?] WHICH. [INDISCERNIBLE] AROUND THE SAME TIME ALBERT HOFMANN DISCOVERED LSD WHO WAS A SWISS CHEMIST AND HE WAS SEARCHING FOR AN ANALYTIC AGENT AND CIRCULATORY AND RESPIRATORY STIMULANT. ALBERT HOFFMAN WAS WORKING ON NATURAL PRODUCTS THAT WERE FROM THE ERGOT FUNGUS AND THAT’S PRESENT IN RYE AND MANY DIFFERENT GRAINS AND ONE OF THE MAIN CONSTITUENTS IS. [WORD?] ACID. ALBERT HOFFMAN WAS ISOLATING. [WORD?] AND TAKING IT INTO COMPOUNDS. THE 25TH COMPOUND IN THE SERIES WAS NONE OTHER THAN LES ERIC ACID. [WORD?] OR LSD. IN 1938, HOFFMAN SYNTHESIZED LSD AND SUBMITTED TO FORM LOGICAL TESTING. THE PHARMACOLOGIST AT SANTOS TESTED IN ANIMALS AND FOUND NOTHING INTERESTING. SO THEY DEEMED IT UNIMPORTANT AND DID NOT WANT TO STUDY IT FURTHER. NOW, IT’S UNIQUE BECAUSE WHEN A COMPOUND GETS SUBMITTED FOR PHARMACOLOGICAL TESTING DENNIS, AND INTERESTING IS PRETTY MUCH DEAD IN THE PIPELINE. IT DOESN’T GET STUDIED FURTHER. BUT ALBERT HOFFMAN FIVE YEARS LATER HAD A PARTICULAR PRESENTMENT AS HE CALLS IT THAT LED THEM TO RE-SYNTHESIZED LSD AND TRY TO STUDY IT FURTHER. URING THIS RECENT SYNTHESIS HE MYSTERIOUSLY THROUGH UNKNOWN MEANS ABSORBED LSD WHEN HE WAS WORKING FOR. ALBERT HOFFMAN HAD TO GO HOME THAT DAY AND HE FELT VERY STRANGE. AND HE ÃSO HE DECIDED AND DEDUCED IT WAS PROBABLY BECAUSE OF THE COMPOUND HE WAS WORKING WITH THAT HE FELT STRANGE THAT DAY. SO A FEW DAYS LATER, HE TOOK 250 MICROGRAMS OF LSD AND WENT ON HIS FAMOUS BICYCLE RIDE AND DISCOVERED IT’S REMARKABLE PSYCHOACTIVE EFFECTS. LSD WAS THEN HANDED OFF TO THE SUPERIORS AT SANTOS AND THEY CONFIRMED WHAT ALBERT HOFFMAN HAD DISCOVERED AND A MAN NAMED. [NAME?] WHO WAS THE SON OF ARTHUR. [NAME?] WHO WAS THE FOUNDER AND DIRECTOR OF. [WORD?] TESTED LSD IN HEALTHY AND MENTALLY ILL PATIENTS AND HE THEN PUBLISHED A PAPER IN 1947 INTRODUCING LSD TO THE WORLD AND ENTITLED ÃTHE TITLE OF THE PAPERS CALLED LSD THE FANTASTIC HIM OF THE ERGOT GROUP. NOW AROUND THE SAME TIME A TEAM LED BY THE MAN NAMED. [NAME?] ALONG WITH. [NAME?] AND MAURICE. [NAME?] WERE INVESTIGATING A SUBSTANCE THAT CAUSED THE CONTRACTION OF BLOOD VESSELS. THEY ISOLATED THE SUBSTANCE FROM. [WORD?] SERUM AND BECAUSE IT WAS PRESENT IN THE SYSTEM IT CAUSED IT, BECAUSE FACE A RESTRICTION I CALLED IT SEROTONIN. ONE YEAR LATER, THE CHEMIST IN THE GROUP MAURICE REPORT DETERMINED THE STRUCTURE OF SEROTONIN WAS. [WORD?]. IT WAS SHORTLY FOUND THEREAFTER THAT THIS WAS THE SAME COMPOUND THAT. [WORD?] FOUND IN THE ENTERIC NERVOUS SYSTEM. SO. [WORD?] IS SEROTONIN IS. [WORD?]. THEY DISCOVERED THAT CERTAIN WAS PRESENT IN THE BRAIN WAS MADE INDEPENDENTLY BY TWO DIFFERENT GROUPS. THE FIRST GROUP WAS ALSO LED BY IRVING PAGE IN WHICH HE WORKED WITH ONE OF HIS PROTCGC. [SP?] SHE DEVELOPED A VERY SOPHISTICATED BIO ASTRID THAT DETECTED SEROTONIN AND TISSUES AND SHE HYPOTHESIZED SEROTONIN TO BE PRESIDENT IN THE BRAIN. HE DIDN’T BELIEVE THIS WAS A GOOD IDEA BUT HE LET HER CONTINUE WITH THE PRESIDENT, EXPERIMENTS IN GRAND. [INDISCERNIBLE] A MAN NAMED. [NAME?] DISCOVERED SEROTONIN WAS PRESENT IN THE BRAIN OF. [WORD?]. JOHN. [NAME?] WAS AT THE UNIVERSITY OF EDINBURG AND THEY BOTH SIMULTANEOUSLY AND INDEPENDENTLY MAKE THIS DISCOVERY. JOHN GUMM HAD EXPERIENCE WITH LSD.OHN. [NAME?] WAS EXPERIENCING SELF EXPERIMENTATION WITH LSD AND HIS NOSE AT LATER FOUND IN HIS LABORATORY NOTEBOOK WHICH ARE NOW HELD TO THE. [WORD?] DESCRIBE SOME OF HIS EXPERIENCES. THE FOLLOWING QUOTATION WAS MADE BY JOHN. [NAME?] AFTER THE. [WORD?] OF LSD. AND HE SAID MY HAND LOOKS CLEAR LIKE A MONSTROUS PICTURE OF A HAND THAT READS ABOUT UNTIL I FIX IT WITH A. [WORD?].T HAS INTERESTING CONTRAST IN ITS COLORS. I SEE IT LIKE AN. [WORD?] PITCHER FEEL RATHER STRANGE TRIP AS IF IT WERE SOMEONE ELSE’S. EVERYTHING IN THE ROOM IS RATHER UNSTABLE. EPHEDRINE HAS NOT ABOLISHED THE EFFECT ON SENSATIONS. NOW, JOHN ‘S SELF EXPERIMENTATION WAS VERY IMPORTANT BECAUSE COUPLED WITH HIS KNOWLEDGE THAT SEROTONIN WAS PRESENT IN THE BRAIN, HE WAS THE FIRST PERSON TO PROPOSE THE LSD WAS ACTING ON THE BRAIN BY ANTAGONIZING SEROTONIN. NOW, JOHN PUBLISHED A PAPER IN 1953 PROPOSING THAT LSD WAS ACTING IN THE BRAIN BY ANTAGONIZING SEROTONIN PRODUCING THE PRESENCE OF. [WORD?] IN CERTAIN PARTS OF THE BRAIN IS CONSISTENT WITH THE THEORY THAT LSD ASKED THE BRAIN BY ANTAGONIZING IT. THIS IS A REMARKABLE STEP FORWARD IN OUR DISCOVERIES BUT NEUROCHEMISTRY COULD HAVE A VERY PROFOUND EFFECT ON BEHAVIOR. A YEAR FOLLOWING, TWO RESEARCHERS FROM THE ROCKEFELLER INSTITUTE ONE NAMED WAYNE. [NAME?] AND HIS COWORKER ELLIOT SCHALL THOUGHT ALONG THE SAME LINES. THEY PUBLISHED A PAPER IN THE PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ACADEMY OF SCIENCES. AND IT WAS TITLED THE BIOCHEMICAL PHARMACOLOGICAL SUGGESTION ABOUT CERTAIN MENTAL DISORDERS. NOW, WILLIAM SHAW UNDERSTOOD WHAT. [NAME?] UNDERSTOOD AND HE SAID WE THEREFORE CONCEIVED THE IDEA MENTAL DISTURBANCES CAUSED BY LSD WERE TO BE ATTRIBUTED TO AN INTERFERENCE OF THE ACTION OF SEROTONIN IN THE BRAIN. [NAME?] IS COGNIZANT OF THE MENTAL EFFECTS OF POLICY AND THE APPEARANCE OF SEROTONIN IN THE BRAIN. WE HAVE SOME EYES THAT HE HAS BEEN THINGY JUST AS WE HAVE ABOUT THE RELATIONSHIP TO SEROTONIN TO THE MENTAL DISTURBANCES INDUCED BY THE DRUG. WILLIAM SHAW TOOK THIS A STEP FURTHER AND MADE A VERY IMPORTANT PROPOSITION ABOUT THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN NEUROTRANSMITTERS LIKE SEROTONIN IN THE BRAIN AND MENTAL ILLNESS. THEY MADE THE FOLLOWING SUGGESTIONS IN THEIR SUMMARY OF THIS PAPER. SEROTONIN PROBABLY PLAYS A ROLE IN MAINTAINING. [INDISCERNIBLE] [INDISCERNIBLE] SIMILAR TO SCHIZOPHRENIA. THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT. THIS IS THE FIRST TIME I REALLY REALIZED THAT NEUROCHEMISTRY COULD HAVE A PROUD EFFECT AND COULD CAUSE SOME SYMPTOMS SEEN IN MENTAL ILLNESS. THERE WAS A PAPER THAT WAS PUBLISHED A FEW YEARS LATER THAT WAS PHILOSOPHICAL THAT WAS AUTHORED BY IRVING PAGE ON THE GENERAL SCIENCE. I FOUND A BEAUTIFUL QUOTATION THAT REALLY HIGHLIGHTS THE IMPORTANCE AND THE REVOLUTION THAT WAS HAPPENING IN OUR UNDERSTANDING OF NEUROCHEMISTRY AND BEHAVIOR. HE SAID THE FOLLOWING TO THE PROBLEM WITH FUNCTION OF THE FUNCTION IF ANY OF SEROTONIN IN THE BRAIN IS FAR FROM SOLVED. IT’S IMPORTANT CURRENTLY HAS BEEN TO PROVIDE ALONG WITH LSD A NIGHT IS AROUND THINKING. [INDISCERNIBLE] >>PROVIDE MANY OF THE KEYS TO A SOLUTION OF THE PROBLEM OF MENTAL DISEASE. AND I LOVE THIS QUOTE BECAUSE IT REALLY GIVES YOU A FEEL FOR HOW DIFFERENT AND NOVEL THE THINKING WAS AT THIS TIME AND WE TAKE THESE THINGS FOR GRANTED NOWADAYS BUT THESE WERE VERY REVOLUTIONARY IDEAS AND LSD HAD A VITAL INFLUENCE. AND THE SCIENTISTS AND THE DISCOVERIES AND SO I WANT TO MAKE SOME CONCLUSIONS ABOUT THE REMARKABLE EFFECTS OF LSD REALLY INVOLVED IN OUR THINKING OF NEUROCHEMISTRY AND IDEOLOGY OF MENTAL ILLNESS HAD A VITAL INFLUENCE ON THE SCIENTISTS AND THE DISCOVERIES SURROUNDING OUR KNOWLEDGE AND BUILDING OUR UNDERSTANDING OF SEROTONIN. AND THESE DISCOVERIES HELP TO STEER PSYCHIATRY AWAY FROM PSYCHOGENIC MODELS TO BIOCHEMICAL MODELS AND MENTAL ILLNESS AS OF THE TIME THESE WERE ALL PSYCHOGENIC MODELS THAT WE WERE GOING OFF OF AND NOW WE STARTING TO UNDERSTAND ABOUT CHEMISTRY WAS AFFECTING BEHAVIOR. I WANT TO END BY THANKING EVERYBODY. I OWE A HUGE AND WARM THANK YOU TO DOCTOR GEORGE MAJOOR FOR BEING SUPPORTIVE OF ME AND I WANT TO THANK DOCTOR LORI. [NAME?] FOR BEING EQUALLY UNCONDITIONALLY SUPPORT EVERYBODY IN HER LABORATORY WHERE IT’S AN ABSOLUTE PLEASURE TO WORK WITH THEM. WANT TO THANK DOCTOR JACOB HOLT WHO WAS MENTORED ME AND TAUGHT ME EVERYTHING I KNOW ABOUT SCIENCE SINCE I BEGAN I ALSO WANT TO THANK DOCTOR NICHOLAS KOZY WAS A PROFESSOR OF PHARMACOLOGY AT WISCONSIN WHO WAS VERY VITAL ON HELPING ME WITH THIS TALK AND HAS BEEN VERY INSPIRATIONAL THROUGHOUT MY TIME AND I WANT TO THANK EVERYONE WHO HELPED PUT THIS TOGETHER. LASTLY, I WOULD LIKE TO THINK SOME OF THE SHOULDERS I STAND ON. DOCTOR ALEXANDER. [NAME?] WHO RICK MENTIONED EARLIER WAS BEEN ABSOLUTELY INSPIRATIONAL TO ANYBODY WHO’S INTERESTED IN PSYCHEDELICS. I WOULD ENCOURAGE ANYONE WHO HAS NOT READ ANYTHING HE’S WRITTEN TO DO SO. AND DOCTOR ED. [NAME?] WHO IS A LEGEND AND NUMBER OF PHARMACOLOGY OR THE UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN AND WHO HAS BEEN AN ABSOLUTE BEAUTIFUL MENTOR TO ME. SO THANK YOU. [APPLAUSE] SPEECH IS WONDERFUL. THANK YOU SO MUCH. IT IS SUCH AN OUTSTANDING SCIENTIST AND A REALLY OUTSTANDING HISTORIAN. AND I LOVE HIS PASSION FOR THE HISTORY.SO NOW IT GIVES ME GREAT PLEASURE TO WELCOME UP EMMA TRAMMEL, WHO IS A PHD STUDENT THE NEUROSCIENCE GRADUATE PROGRAM. SHE WILL TALK TO US ABOUT NON- DERMATOLOGICAL PATHWAYS THROUGH ALTERED STATES OF CONSCIOUSNESS AND INTERESTING FINDINGS AS WE CONSIDER THE UNDERLYING. [AWAY FROM MIC] >>Emma: ASTEROID SAID, TODAY I’M GOING TO BE DISCUSSING BINAURAL SHAMANIC STATE OF CONSCIOUSNESS WHERE SWITCHING UP A LITTLE BIT FROM THOSE PHARMACOLOGIC STATES OF CONSCIOUSNESS TO SOMETHING THAT CAN PRODUCE A SIMILAR STATE BUT STILL THROUGH VERY DIFFERENT METHODS. SO IS CONSIDERED ONE OF THE OLDEST PRACTICES SHAMANIC JOURNEY HAVING BEEN USED FOR PHYSICAL, PSYCHOLOGICAL AND SPIRITUAL HEALING SINCE THE PALEOLITHIC ERA. AND DURING SHAMANIC JOURNEY, SHALL NOT PRACTITIONERS IN CASES OF. [WORD?] OR SHAMANS IN CASE OF INDIGENOUS TRIBES WILL ENTER AN ALTERED STATE OF CONSCIOUSNESS USING PHARMACOLOGIC OR NONPHARMACOLOGIC MEANS. PHARMACOLOGIC MEANS USUALLY CONSIST OF ADJUSTING SOME SORT OF-PSYCHEDELIC COMPOUND LIKE I WAS STUCK WHERE IS NONPHARMACOLOGIC MEANS USUALLY ENTAIL LISTENING TO REPETITIVE RHYTHM SUCH AS THAT FROM A DRUM OR RATTLE AND THE DANCING TO ENTER THIS ALTERED STATE. AND ONCE IN THIS ALTERED STATE, SHAMANIC PRACTITIONERS WILL JOURNEY INTO THE SPIRITUAL REALM WHICH CONSISTS OF THE UPPER, MIDDLE AND LOWER WORLD. AND IT’S THE GOAL OF THE SHAMANIC PRACTITIONER TO HEAL INDIVIDUALS USING INFORMATION THAT THEY GLEAN FROM THE TIME IN THIS REALM AS WELL AS USING HELP FROM OUR ANIMALS AND HE ENCOUNTERED DURING THIS JOURNEY. IT’S ALSO IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT WHILE IN THIS STATE SHAMANIC PRACTITIONERS WILL EXPERIENCE A LOT OF ANECDOTAL OVERLAP WITH THE PSYCHEDELIC EXPERIENCE. THEY MIGHT HAVE FEELINGS OF DISEMBODIMENT, EXPERIENCE FEELINGS OF UNITY. OR MAYBE SOMETHING MORE INTENSE ALONG THE LINES OF. [WORD?]. DESPITE THE CONSISTENCY IN THE SHAMANIC EXPERIENCE AND IS OVERLAP WITH THE PSYCHEDELIC EXPERIENCE VERY FEW STUDIES HAVE LOOKED AT BRAIN ACTIVITY INVOLVING SHAMANIC JOURNEY. THERE HAVE ONLY BEEN ONE. [WORD?] STUDY AND ONE AG STUDY TO DATE. THUS WE WANTED TO LOOK AT THE NEURAL CORRELATES OF THE SHAMANIC STATE OF CONSCIOUSNESS USING HIGH-DENSITY EEG. SO 18 SHAMANIC PRACTITIONERS AND 19 AGE AND SEX MATCHED CONTROLS ARE RECRUITED FOR THIS STUDY AND EACH INDIVIDUAL WAS EQUIPPED WITH HIGH-DENSITY EEG OF 120 OF ELECTRODES. WE THEN ACQUIRED EEG RECORDINGS DURING PERIODS OF SHAMANIC DRUMMING CLASSICAL MUSIC AND EYES CLOSED RESTING STATE. DURING THESE DRUMMING PERIODS, WHICH WERE ÃDID NOT HAVE ANY PHARMACOLOGIC INTERVENTION, INDIVIDUALS LISTENED TO A PRERECORDED TAPE OF SHAMANIC DRUMMING AND THEN THE SHAMANIC PRACTITIONERS WERE ASKED TO JOURNEY AND THE PRACTITIONERS ASKED TO ROSEWOOD DRIVE) FOLLOWING THESE PERIODS IN THE SHAMANIC DRUMMING PERIODS EACH INDIVIDUAL WAS ASKED TO FILL OUT AN ALTERED STATE OF CONSCIOUSNESS QUESTIONNAIRE KNOWN AS THE THEY. [INDISCERNIBLE]. WE PULLED EACH IN THE DOMAINS. [INDISCERNIBLE] [INDISCERNIBLE] KNOWN AS A NEW OH AV SCALE. THE COMPLEX IMAGERY WHICH CHRIS ALLUDED TO BEFORE AND ANXIETY. WE THEN CALCULATED THE MEAN AND STANDARD ERROR OF THE MEAN FOR THE PERCENT OF THE THEORETICAL SKILL MAXIMUM FOR EACH DOMAIN AND WE COMPARED SCORES USING PAIRED AND UNPAIRED. [WORD?] TESTS. WE USED SPEARMINT CORRELATIONS TO INVESTIGATE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN CHANGE IN EEG POWER IN EACH OF THOSE 11 ASC DOMAINS. FOR EACH ANALYSIS WE 500 HERTZ FILTERED 1 TO 35 HERTZ AND WE REFERENCE TO THE AVERAGE REFERENCE. OUR FREQUENCY BAND DESIGNATIONS WERE SIMILAR TO OUR WORK USING HIGH-DENSITY EEG AND HUMANS UNDER GOING KETAMINE DELTA 1 TO 4 HERTZ BETA 4 TO 8 HERTZ ALPHA 8 TO 13 HERTZ AND BETA 13 TO 25 HERTZ AND GAMMA 25 TO 35 HERTZ. WE THEN FOCUSED EEG ANALYSIS ON ELECTRODES FOR THE INTERNATIONAL 1020 SYSTEM AND FRONTAL, CENTRAL PARIETAL AND OCCIPITAL REGIONS. SPECIFICALLY, WE FOCUSED ON F3 AND F4 CZ P3, P4 AND 01 AND 02. WE THEN ASSESS RELATIVE POWER OR THE PERCENTAGE OF POWER WITHIN A GIVEN FREQUENCY BAND COMPARED TO THE TOTAL POWER CROSS FREQUENCIES. SO WE LOOKED AT RELATIVE POWER WITHIN EACH FREQUENCY BAND AT EACH ELECTRODE DURING EACH CONDITION OF DRUMMING EYES CLOSED AND MUSIC AND WE LOOKED AT THE CHANGE OF RELATIVE POWER BETWEEN THESE CONDITIONS. SPECIFICALLY EYES CLOSED MUSIC MINUS EYES CLOSED AND DRUM MINUS MUSIC. WE THEN ASSESS DIFFERENCES USING PAIRED AND UNPAIRED. [WORD?] TESTS. SO OUR ASC QUESTIONNAIRES REVEALED THAT THE SHAMANIC PRACTITIONERS WERE ENTERING AN ALTERED STATE OF CONSCIOUSNESS COMPARED TO CONTROLS WHERE THEY HAD INCREASED ASC DOMAIN SCORES AND EIGHT OF THE 11 DOMAINS DURING DRUMMING COMPARED TO THE CONTROLS. THESE DOMAINS INCLUDED BLISSFUL STATE CHANGE MEANING PERCEPTS COMPLEX IMAGERY, DISEMBODIMENT, ELEMENTARY IMAGERY, EXPERIENCE IMMUNITY, AND INSIGHTFULNESS AND SPIRITUAL SPIRITS. INTERESTINGLY ENOUGH THESE SHAMANIC PRACTITIONERS DIDN’T HAVE ANY DIFFERENCES BETWEEN CONTROLS IN THE DOMAINS OF ANXIETY AND IMPAIRED COGNITION AND CONTROL. HOWEVER, THIS MAKES SENSE GIVEN THAT WHEN A SHAMANIC PRACTITIONER’S IS JOURNEYING TO HAVE A GOAL IN MIND AND A GOAL IS A NEED TO HEAL SOMEBODY. MEANING IT’S VERY IMPORTANT TO MAINTAIN CONTROL OVER THEIR MIND AND BODY AS WELL AS LOW LEVELS OF ANXIETY SO AS NOT TO DETER THEM FROM THIS. [WORD?]. THERE WERE NOT ANY DIFFERENCES BETWEEN SHAMANIC PRACTITIONERS AND CONTROLS IN THE CLASSICAL MUSIC. AND CONTROLS DID NOT HAVE ANY DIFFERENCES IN THEIR ASC SCORES BETWEEN THE DRUMMING AND MUSIC PERIODS. SO AS MANY OF YOU MAY KNOW AN INDIVIDUAL WILL ENTER AN ALTERED STATE OF CONSCIOUSNESS AFTER INGESTING PSYCHEDELIC, WHICH IS THE THEME OF TODAY. SO. [WORD?] EXAMINED THIS OBJECTIVE EXPERIENCE OF INDIVIDUALS WHO ADJUSTED KETAMINE, PSILOCYBIN OR NDMA USING THIS OAB SCALE I REFERENCED EARLIER. GIVEN THE OVERLAP BETWEEN THE SHAMANIC STATE OF CONSCIOUSNESS AND THE PSYCHEDELIC EXPERIENCE, WE THOUGHT IT WOULD BE INTERESTING TO SEE HOW THE ASC SCORES WITH THESE SHAMANIC PRACTITIONERS COMPARED TO THOSE OF THESE HEALTHY VOLUNTEERS INGESTING PSYCHEDELIC SO AFTER. [INDISCERNIBLE] 2010 WE WERE ABLE TO OVERLAY OUR DATA FROM SHAMANIC PRACTITIONERS WHICH CAN BE SEEN HERE IN PURPLE. AND AS YOU CAN SEE FROM THIS FIGURE THE SHAMANIC PRACTITIONERS ACTUALLY SCORED HIGHER ON SEVERAL DOMAINS COMPARED TO THOSE HEALTHY VOLUNTEERS IN A PSYCHEDELIC STATE. SPECIFICALLY IN THE DOMAINS OF EXPERIENCE OF UNITY, SPIRITUAL EXPERIENCE, BLISSFUL STATE, INSIGHTFULNESS, DISEMBODIMENT, AND COMPLEX IMAGERY. AND AGAIN, THESE SHAMANIC PRACTITIONERS HAVE NO DIFFERENCES IN THOSE DOMAINS OF ANXIETY AND IMPAIRED COGNITION AND CONTROL WHICH IS INTERESTING GIVEN THAT THE PSYCHEDELICS FREQUENTLY CAUSE AN INCREASE IN THOSE SCORES. SO NEXT, WE WANTED TO LOOK AT WITHIN SUBJECT DIFFERENCES IN ET POWER BETWEEN THIS CONDITION OF DRUMMING EYES CLOSE AND MUSIC. SO ON EACH OF THESE PLOTS WE HAD MEDIAN RELATIVE POWER ON THE Y-AXIS AND ON THE X AXIS WHERE EACH OF THOSE CONDITIONS OF DRUMMING, EYES CLOSED AND MUSIC. ON EACH PLOT EACH DATA POINT REPRESENTS THE MEDIAN RELATIVE POWER OF ALL 18 SHAMANIC PRACTITIONERS DURING THAT CONDITION AND EACH PLOT IS CORRESPONDING TO A DIFFERENT ELECTRODE, AND WE HAVE BETA POWER ON THE LEFT SIDE OF THE SCREEN AND GAMMA POWER ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE SCREEN. WHAT WE FOUND WAS THAT DRUMMING WAS ASSOCIATED WITH INCREASED FRONTAL AND OCCIPITAL RELATIVE DATA AND GAMMA POWER AND SHAMANIC PRACTITIONERS COMPARED TO THOSE EYES CLOSED AND DRUMMING PERIODS. YOU CAN SEE THE MEDIAN RELATIVE POWER DURING THOSE DRUMMING PERIODS IS CONSISTENTLY HIGHER COMPARED TO THOSE MUSIC AND EYES CLOSED. ACROSS THE FRONTAL AND OCCIPITAL REGIONS IN BOTH BETA AND GAMMA. WE FOUND SIMILAR FINDINGS WILL BE LOOKED AT PARIETAL REGIONS DRUMMING WAS ASSOCIATED WITH INCREASED PRIOR. [INDISCERNIBLE] PRACTITIONERS COMPARED TO THE SIZE). AND JUST TO NOTE, EVEN ON SOME OF THE ELECTRODES, WE FOUND THAT SOME OF THESE REALLY ARE SIGNIFICANT BUT THEY DID NOT MAKE THAT. [WORD?] LESS THAN .05 CUT OFF. SO GIVEN THESE CHANGES ÃGIVEN THESE DIFFERENCES IN POWER BETWEEN CONDITIONS AND SHAMANIC PRACTITIONERS WE WANT TO KNOW IF THIS CHANGE WAS SIGNIFICANTLY DIFFERENT THAN THAT EXPERIENCED BY CONTROLS. SO WE THEN ASSESS THE CHANGE IN RELATIVE POWER BETWEEN THE CONDITIONS OF DRUMMING EYES CLOSED MUSIC IN THE FORM OF DRUM MINUS EYES CLOSED MUSIC MINUS EYES CLOSED AND DRUM MINUS MUSIC. AND WE THEN COMPARED THOSE CHANGES BETWEEN SHAMANIC PRACTITIONERS AND CONTROLS. SO IN EACH OF THESE PLOTS WE HAVE TO CHANGE IN RELATIVE TO THE ET POWER ON THE Y-AXIS AND ON THE X-AXIS WE HAVE CONTROLS IN GREEN AND SHAMANIC PRACTITIONERS AND PURPLE. AT EACH DATA POINT REPRESENTS THE CHANGE IN RELATIVE POWER FOR ONE INDIVIDUAL. AND AGAIN, EACH PLOT CORRESPONDS TO A DIFFERENT ELECTRODE AND WE HAVE BETA POWER ON THE LEFT SIDE OF THE SCREEN AND GAMMA POWER ON THE RIGHT. AND WHAT WE FOUND WAS FOR THIS DRUM MINUS EYES CLOSED CONDITION, THE CHANGE IN OCCIPITAL AND PARIETAL RELATIVE BETA AND GAMMA POWER WAS INDIVIDUALLY DIFFERENT BETWEEN SHAMANIC PRACTITIONERS AND CONTROLS. MEETING THE OVERALL SHAMANIC PRACTITIONERS HAD A GREATER INCREASE IN RELATIVE BETA AND GAMMA POWER DURING THIS DRUMMING PERIOD. AND THEN YOU CAN SEE THAT AND THAT THE SPREAD OF DATA POINTS FOR THE SHAMANIC PRACTITIONER GROUP IS CONSISTENTLY HIGHER THAN THAT GREEN GROUP WHICH IS THE CONTROLS. SO WHEN WE WENT TO INVESTIGATE THE MUSIC MINUS EYES CLOSED COMMISSION, WE FOUND SIMILAR FINDINGS TO THAT OF THE DRUM MINUS EYES CLOSED WHERE AGAIN CHANGE IN OCCIPITAL RELATIVE BETA AND PARIETAL RELATIVE GAMMA POWER WAS SIGNIFICANTLY DIFFERENT BETWEEN SHAMANIC PRACTITIONERS AND CONTROLS. AGAIN, THERE WAS A GREATER INCREASE IN OCCIPITAL RELATIVE BETA AND PARIETAL RELATIVE GAMMA DURING THAT MUSIC PERIOD. AND THIS IS SIGNIFICANT GIVEN THAT ON THE PREVIOUS SLIDE WE WERE COMPARING AN ACTIVE STATE OF DRUMMING TO A PASSIVE STATE OF EYES CLOSE. HERE WE ARE AGAIN COMPARING AN ACTIVE STATE OF MUSIC TO A PASSIVE STATE OF EYES CLOSE. GIVEN THAT OVERLAP IN SOME OF THESE EEG POWER CHANGES IT COULD BE SUGGESTED THAT THESE POWER CHANGES ARE ACTUALLY JUST DUE TO THE BRAIN BEING IN AN ACTIVE STATE COMPARED TO A PASSIVE STATE RATHER THAN BEING DUE TO SHAMANIC DRUMMING ITSELF. HOWEVER, WHENEVER WE WENT TO LOOK AT THAT DRUM MINUS à DRUMMING MINUS MUSIC CONDITION, WE FOUND THE CHANGE AND PARIETAL RELATIVE GAMMA POWER WAS GREATER AND SHAMANIC PRACTITIONERS COMPARED TO CONTROLS, MEANING THAT EVEN WHEN YOU SUBTRACT THE ACTIVE STATE OF MUSIC FROM THE ACTIVE STATE OF DRUMMING, THERE STILL IS A GREATER NET INCREASE AND PARIETAL RELATIVE GAMMA DURING THAT DRUMMING PERIOD. MEETME THESE ARE LIKELY CHANGES SPECIFIC TO DRUMMING RATHER THAN TO AN ACTIVE BRAIN STATE. SO GIVEN THAT WE FOUND SOME DRUMMING SPECIFIC EEG CHANGES WE THOUGHT WOULD BE INTERESTING TO SEE IF THEY CORRELATE AT ALL WITH THE SUBJECTIVE EXPERIENCE OF THESE SHAMANIC PRACTITIONERS. WE PERFORMED. [WORD?] CORRELATIONS WERE REASSESSED THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE PARIETAL ÃTHE CHANGE OF PARIETAL RELATIVE GAMMA POWER AND THE DRUM MINUS MUSIC CONDITION IN EACH OF THE 11 ASC DOMAINS. WHAT WE FOUND IS THERE WERE THREE DOMAINS THAT APPEARED TO HAVE A RELATIONSHIP AND THOSE WERE ALL METRIC, VISUAL, ALTERATIONS, SPIRITUAL EXPERIENCE, AND BLISSFUL STATE. WHERE THE GREATER THE INCREASE IN GAMMA POWER THE CHANGE IN RELATIVE GAMMA POWER, THE GREATER THE SCORE ON THAT ASC QUESTIONNAIRE. AND ALTHOUGH WE AREN’T SURE WHEN THESE ARE THE PARTICULAR DOMAINS THAT SHOWED UP TO BE RELATED, IT DOESN’T SUGGEST THE EEG CHANGES TRACK BUT THAT SUBJECTIVE EXPERIENCE. SO IN SUMMARY, WE FOUND OUR ASC QUESTIONNAIRES REVEALED SMART PRACTITIONERS WERE ENTERING AN ALTERED STATE OF CONSCIOUSNESS COMPARED TO CONTROLS AND THAT THIS ALTERED STATE WAS SIMILAR TO THE PSYCHEDELIC STATE AND EVEN EXCEEDED IT IN CERTAIN DOMAINS. WE FOUND THAT PARIETAL RELATIVE GAMMA POWER INCREASES DRINK SHAMANIC DRUMMING COMPARED TO EYES CLOSED MUSIC. AND THAT THE DRUMMING SPECIFIC CHANGES ARE CORRELATED WITH THE SUBJECTIVE EXPERIENCE. FINALLY, IT’S IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT UNLIKE PSYCHEDELICS, WE DIDN’T SEE ANY CHANGES IN ALPHA POWER, WHICH IS VERY COMMON WHENEVER AN INDIVIDUAL HAS ADJUSTED PSYCHEDELIC DRUGS. AND SO GIVEN THAT THERE IS SOME OVERLAP BETWEEN THE SHAMANIC STATE OF CONSCIOUSNESS IN THESE PSYCHEDELIC SUBSTANCES, IT’S STILL SUGGESTS THEY ARE VERY DIFFERENT STATES. AND WITH THAT, I WOULD LIKE TO THINK MY ADVISORS, GEORGE MASHOUR AND RICK HARRIS FOR THE GUIDANCE AND. [NAME?] WHO WAS MY CO-MENTOR I’D LIKE TO THINK THE GRADUATE PROGRAM IN THE CENTER FOR CONSCIOUSNESS SCIENCE, SPECIFICALLY. [NAME?] AND. [NAME?] TO HELP GUIDE THE ANALYSIS ON THIS PROJECT AND I LIKE TO GIVE A SPECIAL THANKS TO. [NAME?] AND STEPHANIE. [NAME?] FOR HELPING US DESIGN AN ENVIRONMENT WHERE SHAMANIC PRACTITIONERS COULD JOURNEY AS WELL AS STEPHANIE. [NAME?] AND.[NAME?] FOR HELPING LODGING AND ACQUIRING THIS DATA AND PAID. [NAME?] FOR THEIR SUPPORT FOR MY ROTATIONS. THANK YOU. [APPLAUSE] >>George: WONDERFUL. THANK YOU SO MUCH, EMMA. NTERESTING WORK AND I THINK LOTS OF INTERESTING PLACES TO GO AS YOU VENTURE TO THE DATA. IT’S MY PLEASURE TO WELCOME UP THE THIRD AND LAST OF OUR GRADUATE SCHOOL SPEAKERS, MICHAEL BRITO WHO’S WORKING IN OUR LAB WITH. [NAME?] AND I THINK HE’S GOING TO SHOW YOU SOME VERY INTERESTING DATA, MOST OF THE TALKS YOU HAVE HEARD TODAY AND A LOT OF THE LITERATURE RELATES TO HUMANS BUT WE ALSO NEED TO UNDERSTAND THE FOUNDATIONAL NEUROBIOLOGY AND MICHAEL IS GOING TO BE TALKING ABOUT SOME APPROACHES THAT MIGHT HELP GET US THERE. SO MICHAEL? [APPLAUSE] >>Michael: THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THAT INTRODUCTION. IT’S A PLEASURE TO SPEAK IN FRONT OF YOU ALL. TODAY I’M GOING TO SPEAK ABOUT SOME ONGOING CASES WHERE CHARACTERIZING THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN CORTICAL LEVELS OF ACETYLCHOLINE AND MEASURES OF EEG SIGNAL DIVERSITY DURING SUB ANESTHETIC KETAMINE TREATMENT IN RATS. SO CURRENTLY THERE IS NO STANDARDIZED MEASURE TO MONITOR THE BRAIN’S LEVEL OF CONSCIOUSNESS IN CLINICAL AND BASIC RESEARCH SETTINGS. THIS HAS HAD VERY MAJOR IMPLICATIONS IN ASSESSING THE LEVEL OF CONSCIOUSNESS AND CONDITIONS SUCH AS DISORDERS OF CONSCIOUSNESS MIKE, DURING SURGICAL ANESTHESIA AND IN THE CASE OF NEURODEGENERATIVE DISEASES. RECENTLY, MEASURES OF CONSCIOUS LEVEL HAVE BEEN PROPOSED BASED UPON THE FRAMEWORK OF INFORMATION THEORY WHEREIN WE CAN TAKE SIGNALS FROM THE BRAIN, APPROXIMATE THEIR INFORMATION CONTENT AND BY A SURROGATE MEASURE ASSESS THE LEVEL OF CONSCIOUSNESS. SO IN THIS FRAMEWORK WE CAN TAKE A SYSTEM LIKE THE BRAIN AND WE CAN QUANTIFY THE AMOUNT OF ENTROPY OR RANDOMNESS OR DIVERSITY WITHIN IT AND RELATE THAT ENTROPY TO THE SYSTEM’S INFORMATION CONTENT AND BITS OF INFORMATION. SO IT’S BEEN PROPOSED BUT TO MEASURE THE DIVERSITY OF SIGNALS RECORDED FROM THE BRAIN SUCH AS THE ELECTROENCEPHALOGRAM OR EEG IN ORDER TO ESTIMATE INFORMATION CONTENT IN THE BRAIN APPROXIMATE THE LEVEL OF CONSCIOUS AWARENESS. IN SUPPORT OF THIS A WEALTH OF STUDIES OVER THE PAST TWO DECADES HAVE DEMONSTRATED THAT THESE MEASURES HAVE SIGNAL DIVERSITY WHEN APPLIED TO SIGNALS SUCH AS THE EEG TRACK WELL WITH THE LEVEL OF CONSCIOUSNESS AND THIS IS TRUE ACROSS A WIDE SPECTRUM OF BRAIN STATES. SO TYPICALLY AND STATES IN WHICH WE HAVE PHENOMENOLOGICAL EXPERIENCE SUCH AS WEIGHT OR REM SLEEP WHERE YOU WOULD MOST LIKELY BE SLEEPING WITH A HIGH LEVEL OF SIGNAL DIVERSITY AND INFORMATION CONTENT WITHIN THE BRAIN. CONVERSELY, WHEN WE ARE UNCONSCIOUS SUCH AS IN THE SITUATION OF ANESTHESIA OR,, THESE MEASURES ARE SUPPRESSED. ON THE OTHER END OF THE SPECTRUM AND RELEVANT TO OUR DISCUSSION TODAY, RECENT WORK HAS DEMONSTRATED THAT THESE MEASURES THAT SIGNAL DIVERSITY AND INFORMATION CONTENT ARE HEIGHTENED IN THE BRAIN DURING THIS PSYCHEDELIC STATE. AND THIS IS NOT ONLY TRUE OF CLASSICAL SEROTONERGIC HALLUCINOGENS SUCH AS PSILOCYBIN OR LST BUT IT’S ALSO BEEN DEMONSTRATED IN THE CASE OF DISSOCIATIVE AND. [INDISCERNIBLE] SUCH AS KETAMINE SO IT SEEMS TO BE A PHARMACOLOGICALLY INVARIANT EFFECTb& AND HYPOTHESIZE THE HIGHEST PSYCHEDELIC STATE REPRESENTS A BRAIN STATE OF HEIGHTENED INFORMATION PROCESS FOR PROCESSING. SO WHILE THE APPROACH OF TRACKING THE LEVEL OF CONSCIOUSNESS BUT THESE MEASURES BASED ON SIGNAL DIVERSITY HAS BEEN QUITE SUCCESSFUL THUS FAR, WE DON’T HAVE MUCH IN THE WAY OF A MECHANISTIC FRAMEWORK TO DESCRIBE HOW SIGNAL DIVERSITY IS DEMODULATED IN THE BRAIN. AND SO WE DON’T KNOW WHAT IN THE BRAIN IS DRIVING THESE CHANGES AND SIGNAL DIVERSITY DURING NORMAL OR ALTERED STATES OF CONSCIOUSNESS SUCH AS THE PSYCHEDELIC STATE. HOWEVER, THERE MIGHT BE COMMON NEUROTRANSMITTER SYSTEMS THAT ARE CAPABLE OF DRIVING CHANGES AND SIGNAL DIVERSITY DURING BOTH OF THESE CONTACTS. SO ONE NEUROTRANSMITTER SYSTEM WHICH APPEARS TO MEET THIS CRITERION IS ACETYLCHOLINE OR ACH FOR SHORT. THE CORTEX RECEIVES EXTENSIVE ” KNOWN AS THE BASAL CORE BRAIN. AND IT’S BEEN DEMONSTRATED THAT ACETYLCHOLINE RELEASE IN THE CORTEX. [INDISCERNIBLE] PSYCHEDELIC STATE SUCH AS PHYSIOLOGICAL AROUSAL, ATTENTION, COGNITION, AND SENSORY PROCESSING. FURTHERMORE IT’S BEEN DEMONSTRATED THAT HIGH LEVELS OF ACETYLCHOLINE IN THE CORTEX PROMOTE CONDITIONS THAT ARE PERMISSIVE TYPICALLY TO HIGH LEVELS OF SIGNAL DIVERSITY. SUCH AS THE SYNCHRONIZED EEG, THE PRESENCE OF HIGH-FREQUENCY OSCILLATIONS AND INCREASED BEHAVIORAL AROUSAL. AND SO HOW DOES ACETYLCHOLINE TRACK WITH THE LEVEL OF CONSCIOUSNESS? IT TURNS OUT THAT WHEN WE CLOCK THIS AGAINST THE DISTRIBUTION IN A CHAUFFEUR SIGNAL DIVERSITY WE GET SOMETHING THAT’S VERY SIMILAR AND CONDITIONS OF WEIGHT OR REM SLEEP ACETYLCHOLINE RELEASE IN THE CORTEX IS TYPICALLY QUITE HIGH. IT SUPPRESSED DURING UNCONSCIOUS STATES AND THERE’S SOME LIMITED EVIDENCE TO SUGGEST THAT ACETYLCHOLINE RELEASE IS HEIGHTENED DURING THE PSYCHEDELIC STATE. THIS IS NOT ONLY BEEN DEMONSTRATED FOR CLASSICAL SEROTONERGIC HALLUCINOGENS LIKE MESCALINE BUT ALSO BY OUR LAB IN THE CONTEXT OF EMERGENCE FROM KETAMINE ANESTHESIA WHEN CONCENTRATION OF THE DRUG REACHED SUB ANESTHETIC LEVELS. HOWEVER, WE STILL DON’T KNOW IF THERE’S ANY SORT OF RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THESE MEASURES OF SIGNAL DIVERSITY AND ANY SORT OF NEUROCHEMICAL PROCESS WITHIN THE BRAIN. AND SO WE USE SUB ANESTHETIC KETAMINE TO MODEL THE PSYCHEDELIC STATE IN RATS AND WE ASKED DOES ACETYLCHOLINE RELEASE IN THE CORTEX RELATE TO EEG SIGNAL DIVERSITY BEFORE, DURING, AND AFTER AN EXTENDED SUB ANESTHETIC KETAMINE INFUSION? AND TO STUDY THIS WE DEVELOPED A NOVEL WRAPPED MODEL THAT ALLOWED US TO LEVERAGE THE ADVANTAGES OF BOTH HUMAN AND ANIMAL STUDIES HUMAN IN THE SENSE WE COULD GET HIGH DENSITY ELECTROPHYSIOLOGY AND ANIMAL IN THE SENSE WE COULD TAKE INVASIVE NEUROCHEMICAL MEASUREMENTS. IN THIS MODEL, WE HAVE 30 CHANNEL EEG WHICH IS INTRACRANIAL WHICH ALLOWS US TO RECORD UP TO VARY HIGH GAMMA FREQUENCIES, WHICH ARE TYPICALLY INACCESSIBLE IN HUMAN STUDIES. FURTHERMORE, WE CAN INSERT TO MICRODIALYSIS PROBES TO MEASURE ACETYLCHOLINE CONCENTRATIONS FROM MULTIPLE CORTICAL SITES. IN THE CONTEXT OF THIS EXPERIMENT WE HAD ONE PROBE IMPLANTED WITHIN THE PREFRONTAL CORTEX IMPLICATED IN EXECUTIVE FUNCTIONING AND WE HAD ANOTHER IN THE POSTERIOR PARIETAL CORTEX OR PPC AND TO BE SPECIFIC WE WERE IN THE AREA KNOWN AS THE BURIAL CORTEX WHICH IS IMPLICATED IN SOMATOSENSORY PROCESSING FROM RODENTS’S WHISPERS THAT THEY USED TO SENSE AND EXPLORE THE ENVIRONMENT AROUND THEM.O HERE’S OUR EXPERIMENTAL DESIGN. THROUGHOUT THE EXPERIMENT WE ARE CONTINUOUSLY RECORDING HIGH DENSITY EEG AND EVERY 12.5 MINUTES, THAT’S ONE OF THESE BOXES, WE COLLECT A MICRODIALYSIS SAMPLE FROM PFC. OR PPC. SO FIRST WE LOOK AT THE RATS UNDER CONDITIONS AND WE BEGIN A SUB ANESTHETIC KETAMINE INFUSION AT A RATE OF 10 MILLIGRAMS PER KILOGRAM PER HOUR AND AFTER 62.5 MINUTES, WE STOP THE INFUSION AND LET THE RATS RETURN BACK TO NORMAL IN THE POST KETAMINE AND RECOVERY STATES. SO OUR SUBJECTS THUS FAR IN THE STUDY ARE SIX MALE RATS ALTHOUGH WE DO HAVE INTENTION OF ADDING FEMALES TO THE COHORT. AND WE ASSESS THE ACETYLCHOLINE LEVELS FROM OUR MICRODIALYSIS SAMPLES USING A TECHNIQUE KNOWN AS HIGH-PERFORMANCE LIQUID CHROMATOGRAPHY. WE USE A MEASUREMENT THAT WAS MENTIONED A BIT BY CHRIS IN HIS PREVIOUS TALK. THE. [WORD?] OF COMPLEXITY AND WE APPLIED THIS TO EVERY 12.5 MINUTE MICRODIALYSIS PERIOD. SO WHAT IS. [WORD?] COMPLEXITY ALGORITHM ALLOWS US TO COUNT THE NUMBER OF PATTERNS WITHIN THE EEG SIGNAL WHICH ALLOWS US TO MAKE COMPARISONS BETWEEN DIFFERENT CONSCIOUS STATE WITH RESPECT TO THEIR LEVELS OF SIGNAL DIVERSITY. SO IN THIS FRAMEWORK IF WE GET MORE UNIQUE PATTERNS THIS ALGORITHM WILL GIVE US A HIGHER LEVEL OF SIGNAL DIVERSITY WHICH CORRESPONDS TO A HIGHER LEVEL OF ENTROPY AND INFORMATION CONTENT WITHIN THE EEG SYSTEM. ONE WAY THAT WE APPLIED IT IS TO LOOK AT THE TEMPORAL DYNAMICS OF THE TEMPORAL DIVERSITY, THE SIGNAL. IN THIS CONTEXT WE APPLY THIS MEASURE AT A SINGLE EEG CHANNEL AT A TIME AND WE COUNT THE NUMBER OF UNIQUE TEMPORAL PATTERNS SYNONYMOUSLY SOMETHING LIKE A RHYTHM IN EACH EEG CHANNEL ACROSS ALL THE STATES. TO USE THIS GROSS ANALOGY DURING STATES OF HIGH TEMPORAL DIVERSITY THE TEMPORAL DYNAMICS OF THE BRAIN WILL BE MORE AKIN TO SOMETHING LIKE A DRUM SOLO WHEREAS DURING. [INDISCERNIBLE] THERE WILL BE MORE AKIN TO SOMETHING SYNCHRONOUS LIKE A METRONOME. WE ALSO LOOKED AT THE SPATIAL DIVERSITY WITHIN THE SIGNAL. IN THIS CONTEXT, RATHER THAN APPLYING THE MEASUREMENTS AT A SINGLE CHANNEL WE APPLIED ACROSS THE ENTIRE SPAN OF THE EEG ARRAY WHICH ALLOWS US TO COUNT THE NUMBER OF UNIQUE PATTERNS OF BRAIN ACTIVITY ACROSS THE CORTEX. SO IN CONDITIONS OF LOWER SPATIAL DIVERSITY WE WILL FIND THAT BRAIN REGIONS ARRANGED INTO A SMALLER NUMBER OF POSSIBLE STATES REFLECTING MORE RESTRICTED LINES OF COMMUNICATIONS BETWEEN THESE CORTICAL AREAS. WHEREAS IN CONDITIONS PRIOR SPATIAL DIVERSITY WE WILL FIND THAT BRAIN REGIONS ARRANGED INTO A GREATER POSSIBLE NUMBER OF STATES REFLECTING MORE OPEN AND FLUID AND COMMUNICATIVE DYNAMICS BETWEEN ALL OF THESE CORTICAL REGIONS. AND SO HAVING GONE OVER THE MEASURES WE CANNOT JUMP INTO THE DATA. LOOKING AT THESE MEASURES OF SIGNAL DIVERSITY DURING SUB ANESTHETIC KETAMINE. ON THE LEFT, WE HAVE A PLOT DEPICTING THE TEMPORAL EEG DIVERSITY, AND ON THE RIGHT, A PLOT DEPICTING THE SPATIAL EEG DIVERSITY. EACH ONE OF THESE POINTS ON THE GRAPH CORRESPONDS TO A SINGLE 12.5 MINUTE MICRODIALYSIS AFFECT HOW ARE THE STATISTICAL COMPARISONS THAT WE MAKE ARE MADE BY AVERAGING THE STATE TOGETHER AND THEN COMPARING THEM TO BE FOUND SUB ANESTHETIC INFUSION SIGNIFICANTLY ENHANCE BOTH THESE TEMPORAL AND SPATIAL METRICS OF SIGNAL DIVERSITY RELATIVE TO WAVE. WE SEE A NICE INFUSION DEPENDENT INCREASE IN BOTH OF THESE MEASURES THAT UPON CESSATION OF THE INFUSION AND THE POST KETAMINE EPIC RETURNS BACK TO NORMAL WAKING LEVELS BY THE END OF THE RECOVERY PERIOD. INTERESTINGLY AND SORT OF REFLECTING WHAT’S BEEN FOUND IN HUMAN WORK WITH PSYCHEDELICS, WE FOUND THE EFFECT SIZES WERE MUCH LARGER WITH RESPECT TO SUB ANESTHETIC KETAMINE’S EFFECTS ON TEMPORAL DIVERSITY THAN THEY WERE FOR SPECIAL DIVERSITY. WHERE THE DIFFERENCES WERE SIGNIFICANT BUT THE EFFECT SIZES WERE FAIRLY SMALL.SO HOW DID OUR DATA ON ACETYLCHOLINE COMPARE? SO ON THE LEFT, WE HAVE A PLOT DEPICTING ACETYLCHOLINE LEVELS AT PREFRONTAL CORTEX AND ON THE RIGHT A PLOT DEPICTING ACETYLCHOLINE LEVELS AND POSTERIOR PARIETAL CORTEX AND WE FOUND A SUB ANESTHETIC KETAMINE INFUSION SIGNIFICANTLY INCREASE THE ACETYLCHOLINE RELEASE IN BOTH OF THESE CORTICAL AREAS. AGAIN, WE SEE A SIMILAR PATTERN WHAT WE SAW SIGNAL DIVERSITY IS A NICE INFUSION DEPENDENT INCREASE IN THE ACETYLCHOLINE LEVELS WHICH WHEN WE STOP THE INFUSION HERE RETURNS BACK TO NORMAL WAKING LEVELS. QUITE INTERESTINGLY, WHEN WE LOOKED AT THE RELATIVE EFFECT SIZES OF SUB ANESTHETIC KETAMINE ON ACETYLCHOLINE RELEASE AND THESE BRAIN AREAS, WE FOUND THEY WERE ALMOST TWO TIMES THE SIZE OF PREFRONTAL CORTEX IN THE POSTERIOR PARIETAL CORTEX. SO WHILE WE CAN’T SAY MUCH ABOUT THE UNDERLYING PHENOMENOLOGY OF IRAQ’S PSYCHEDELIC EXPERIENCE, IT’S QUITE INTERESTING TO SEE THE KETAMINE IS HAVING A LARGER EFFECT ON AREAS OF THE CORTEX THAT ARE KNOWN TO MEDIATE SENSORY PROCESSING. AND SO FINALLY, WE WANTED TO LOOK AT THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THESE TWO VARIABLES OF SIGNAL DIVERSITY AND ACETYLCHOLINE IN THESE TWO DIFFERENT CORTICAL SITES. AND SO WE RAN A CORRELATION TO ASSESS TO WHAT DEGREE THESE VARIABLES CHANGE TOGETHER ACROSS THE DURATION OF THE EXPERIMENT. SO WE FIRST LOOKED AT THE CORRELATION BETWEEN ACETYLCHOLINE LEVELS AND PFC. AND PCC AND TEMP ORAL CORRELATION AND WE FOUND ACETYLCHOLINE RELEASE IN BOTH OF THE SITES WAS CORRELATED WITH TEMP ORAL EEG DIVERSITY ACROSS THE DURATION OF THE EXPERIMENT. QUITE INTERESTINGLY, THE PPC IS POPPING OUT TO US IN OUR RESULTS AND THAT WE OBSERVED A STRONGER CORRELATION BETWEEN PPC LEVELS OF ACETYLCHOLINE AND TOMORROW EEG DIVERSITY AND WE DID WITH RESPECT TO PFC. LEVELS AND TEMP ORAL EEG DIVERSITY. FINALLY WE LOOKED AT THE MEASURES OF SPATIAL EEG DIVERSITY AND TRY TO SEE HOW THOSE CORRESPONDED TO CHANGES IN ACETYLCHOLINE LEVELS IN EITHER PREFRONTAL OR POSTERIOR PARIETAL CORTEX. AND IN THIS CASE, WE WERE ABLE TO FIND ANY ASSOCIATION WHATSOEVER BETWEEN ACETYLCHOLINE RELEASE AND IS MEASURES OF SPATIAL EEG DIVERSITY. SO THIS RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN ACETYLCHOLINE RELEASE AND THE CORTEX AND IS MEASURES OF SEVERAL DIVERSITIES SEEMS TO BE RESTRICTED TO THE TEMPORAL DYNAMICS OF A SYSTEM. AND SO IN CONCLUSION, WE FOUND THAT SUB ANESTHETIC KETAMINE INFUSION INFUSED INCREASES ACETYLCHOLINE RELEASE. [INDISCERNIBLE] WE ALSO FOUND ACETYLCHOLINE RELEASE AND BOTH PREFRONTAL AND POSTERIOR PARIETAL CORTEX WAS CORRELATED WITH CHANGES IN TEMP ORAL BUT NOT SPATIAL EEG DIVERSITY. WE ALSO FOUND THAT KETAMINE HAD A GREATER EFFECT ON ACETYLCHOLINE RELEASE AND THE POSTERIOR PARIETAL CORTEX SPECIFICALLY IN THE BARREL CORTEX AND THE EFFECT WAS GREATER THAN PFC CORRELATED BETTER WITH CHANGES IN TOMORROW EEG DIVERSITY. SO IN SOME, THESE DATA DEMONSTRATE ENHANCEMENTS AND CORTICAL ACETYLCHOLINE RELEASE MAY SUPPORT INCREASE DURING SUB ANESTHETIC I SAY MADE BECAUSE THESE DATA ARE ONLY CORRELATIONAL IN NATURE.IN ORDER TO ESTABLISH A CAUSAL RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THESE VARIABLES, WE WILL NEED TO PERFORM EXPERIMENTS IN WHICH WE SELECTIVELY MANIPULATE THE CIRCUS TO THE USE OF. [WORD?] OR UP TO GENETICS AND THEN SEE WHAT HAPPENS TO THE SIGNAL DIVERSITY DURING PSYCHEDELIC STATES SUCH AS KETAMINE. FURTHERMORE, IF WE USE STUDIES WITH CLASSICAL SEROTONERGIC PSYCHEDELICS, THIS COULD ALLOW US TO BROADEN THE SCOPE OF OUR HYPOTHESIS BEYOND DISASSOCIATIVE ANTAGONISTS SORT OF TRANSCENDING THESE PHARMACOLOGICAL DIFFERENCES IN PROVIDING A COMMON NEUROCHEMICAL MECHANISM BY WHICH PSYCHEDELICS ENHANCE SIGNAL DIVERSITY IN THE CORTEX. AND SO WITH THAT, I WOULD LIKE TO ACKNOWLEDGE A FEW PEOPLE. MY GRADUATE THESIS ADVISOR DOCTOR GEORGE MASHOUR AND DOCTOR DINESH POWELL MY LAB MATES AND COLLABORATORS PARTICULARLY DOCTOR. [NAME?] DOCTOR.[NAME?] AND CHLOE. [NAME?], DOCTOR. [NAME?] HELPED ME GET. [INDISCERNIBLE] WITHOUT CHLOE A LOT OF THIS DATA WOULD NOT BE COLLECTIBLE. SHE’S REALLY GONE THE EXTRA MILE TO COME IN AT 5:00 A.M. AND GET THESE 16 HOUR EXPERIMENTS GOING. I WOULD ALSO LIKE TO THINK MY GRADUATE THESIS COMMITTEE AND MY FUNDING SOURCES AT THE NIH AND THE NSF GRADUATE RESEARCH FELLOWSHIP PROGRAM. THANK YOU. [APPLAUSE] ‘S.>>George: I WANT TO THANK MICHAEL FOR A FANTASTIC TALK AND I WANT TO THINK ALL OF OUR STUDENTS FOR REALLY THOUGHT-PROVOKING AND VERY, VERY WELL DONE LECTURES. THANK YOU SO MUCH. I’M REALLY PROUD OF ALL OF YOU. AND NOW WE CAN OPEN IT UP TO QUESTIONS AND IF YOU HAVE QUESTIONS, AGAIN, PLEASE GO TO THE MICROPHONE. PLEASE STEP UP.>>Speaker: THIS IS A QUESTION ÃI’M CURIOUS IF YOU TRIED USING ANY PHARMACOLOGICAL METHODS TO STUDY THE ACETYLCHOLINE RECEPTOR COMPONENT OF WHAT’S GOING ON WITH YOUR KETAMINE STUDY. FOR INSTANCE, YOU COULD USE ATROPINE AND BLOCK THE. [WORD?] RECEPTOR AND. [INDISCERNIBLE] RECEPTOR IS DRIVING YOUR EEG SIGNAL DIVERSITY. IF YOU CONSIDERED USING SOME OF THESE METHODS?>>Michael: ABSOLUTELY. RIGHT NOW WE ARE LOOKING MORE AT A RIF THOSE EFFORTS ARE SUCCESSFUL COULD BE GREAT TO GO IN THERE AND DO PHARMACOLOGY.>>Speaker: AWESOME, MAN.>>Speaker: WHAT KIND OF KETAMINE DID YOU USE? YOU HAVE RECEIVED THE AND THE MEDICAL KETAMINE WHICH IS ONE ISOMER AND THEN YOU HAVE THIS KETAMINE THAT’S JUST COME OUT ON THE MARKET FOR RELATING DEPRESSION WHICH IS THE OTHER ISOMER AND IT’S KNOWN THAT MOST OF THE EFFECTS ARE IN THE ONE ISOMER.>>Michael: WE USED A R AND S. >>Speaker: THIS IS FOR EMMA. COULD YOU PROVIDE A LITTLE MORE DETAIL ON THE MUSIC IN TERMS OF SHAMANIC DRUMMING, SPECIFICALLY WHAT IT WAS AND ALSO IN TERMS OF THE CLASSICAL MUSIC, MORE SPECIFICALLY WHAT IT WAS?>>Emma: SO THE SHAMANIC DRUMMING. WAS JUST KIND OF A PRETTY GENERIC PRERECORDED CD THAT HAD DRUMMING ON IT SO IT’S AROUND 3 TO 4 HERTZ AND IS A STEADY RHYTHM. IT’S JUST LISTENING TO THE STEADY RHYTHM AND HELPS THE INDIVIDUAL BLOCK OUT OTHER SENSORY PROCESSING IN ORDER TO MORE EASILY ENTER THE STATE. AND IN THE CLASSIC ÃTHE CLASSICAL MUSIC. [INDISCERNIBLE] NOT OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD I DON’T.>>THIS ONE IS FOR EMMA. WAS THERE ANY FOLLOW-UP REGARDING THE CONTROL GROUP VERSUS THE SHAMANS AND WAS THE CONTROL GROUP PAPER TO ACHIEVE HIGHER STATES WITHOUT DRUGS AFTER THE INITIAL CORRELATION COMPARISON?>>SO JAMIE WAS THE FOLLOW-UP AFTER THE STUDY? SO WE DIDN’T REALLY FOLLOW UP WITH ANY OF THEM AFTER THE STUDY IN TERMS OF IF THEY DECIDED TO TRY TO INTRODUCE STATES OR ANYTHING BUT AT LEAST WHENEVER THEY LISTENED TO THE DRUMMING AND THE MUSIC. IT’S THE CONTROL DIDN’T HEADSET INTO REIGN AT ALL. IT WAS THE PRACTITIONER DURING THE DRUMMING PERIODS.>>George: OVER HERE.>>Speaker: HIGH MAC. WHEN YOU WETHE SHAMANIC’S WITH THE HEALTH CONTROLS I’M CURIOUS IF YOU GAVE AN ACTIVE TASK TO THE CONTROLS TO BE THINKING ABOUT HEALING A FAMILY MEMBER TO KEEP THEM FROM GETTING DROWSY WHICH WOULD TEND TO MAKE THEM HAVE LOWER FREQUENCY.>>Emma: THAT’S AN EXCELLENT QUESTION. I WAS TALKING ABOUT THIS YESTERDAY. IN THE STUDY WE ASKED THE CONTROLS TO REST QUIETLY WITH HER EYES CLOSED IN HINDSIGHT THAT DOES KIND OF PUT THEM IN A LITTLE BIT OF A DIFFERENT BRAIN STATE WHERE THE SHAMANIC PRACTITIONERS HAVE A TASK IN MIND AND THEY LISTENED TO DRUMMING IN THE CONTROLS ARE KINDA PASSIVELY LISTENING TO DRUMMING. EVEN THOUGH I SAY IT WAS AN ACTIVE STATE FOR THEM, THE SHAMANIC PRACTITIONERS WERE LIKELY A BIT MORE ENGAGED. AN INTERESTING STUDY WOULD BE TOO ASK THOSE CONTROL PARTICIPANTS TO ACTUALLY HAVE SOME ATTENDED TRAINING. ALL OF THEM WERE NACE TO CHAUVINISM IT WOULD STILL BE INTERESTING TO HAVE THEM THINK ABOUT A FAMILY MEMBER OR JUST HAVING POSITIVE FEELINGS TOWARDS THEM OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. EXCELLENT QUESTION.>>Speaker: THIS ONE IS FOR NICK. HOW MUCH OF A ROLE DID THE COUNTERCULTURAL REVOLUTION OF THE 60s HAVE IN THE STIGMATIZATION AND THE BLOWBACK FROM THE GOVERNMENT AND CRIMINALIZING PSYCHEDELIC ESPECIALLY LSD.>>Nick: I THINK THAT I HAD A HUGE ROLE AND IT REALLY CAUSED A LONG-TERM ESSENTIALLY STANDSTILL OF PSYCHEDELIC RESEARCH AND THERE WAS A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO WEREN’T VERY STRATEGIC ABOUT THEIR VIEWS AND THEIR OPINIONS AND THEY REALLY LET THE SCIENCE SPEAK FOR THEM. I THINK THAT REALLY PUT US BACK DECADES AND IT’S TAKEN DECADES THROUGH WHAT DOCTOR. [NAME?] HAS SHOWN TO TRY TO RECUPERATE SOME OF THE PUBLIC’S TRUST IN PSYCHEDELICS. AND POTENTIAL MEDICINES. YEAH.>>George: QUESTION EARLIER.>>Speaker: THIS IS FOR EMMA. I’M CURIOUS. IT SEEMS LIKE PERHAPS ALL OF THE SHAMANIC PRACTITIONERS WERE. [AWAY FROM MIC] AND IF THERE’S ANY STUDIES WITH INDIGENOUS LINEAGE SHAMANS THAT YOU ARE AWARE OF AND JUST AS KIND OF ANOTHER COROLLARY, IS THERE A RELATIONSHIP TO MONKS MEDITATING IS USEFUL OR WHAT’S THE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN, YOU KNOW, CULTURALLY INDIGENOUS SHAMANS OR MONKS OR OTHER INTERESTING COROLLARIES TO THOSE?>>Emma: LIKE YOU SAID ALL OF THESE WERE SHAMANIC PRACTITIONERS ONLY BECAUSE THE LOGISTICS OF TRYING TO GO TO AN INDIGENOUS TRIBE TO BE ABLE TO RECORD FROM THEM ARE VERY DIFFICULT. I THINK THOSE STUDIES WOULD BE FEASIBLE IF YOU HAD THE RIGHT AMOUNT OF FUNDS AND THE RIGHT EQUIPMENT SPECIFICALLY THE CRITICAL NECESSARY AND TO ANSWER YOUR SECOND QUESTION SO I DO THINK THERE IS SOME OVERLAP BETWEEN STATE THE SHAMANIC PRACTITIONERS ARE ENTERING AND TO SOME DEGREE MEDITATION AND MONKS ALTHOUGH I CAN SAY ANECDOTALLY BY TALKING TO SOMEBODY THAT HAS EXPERIENCE WITH SHAMANIC JOURNEY THEY ALSO HAVE EXPERIENCE WITH MEDITATION THEY SAID THEY ARE VERY DIFFERENT STATES IN TERMS OF YOUR MORE GROUNDED DURING THE SHAMANIC JOURNEY, YOU ARE MORE AWARE OF YOUR SURROUNDINGS AND WHERE YOU ARE IN THE ROOM WERE AS WITH MEDITATION YOU TEND TO HAVE MORE OF A FEELING OF KIND OF LEAVING YOUR SURROUNDINGS.>>George: THANK YOU. OVER HERE.>>Speaker: FOLLOW-UP TO THAT QUESTION. HOW DO YOU GO ABOUT GETTING THE 18 CANDIDATES THAT ARE SHAMANIC PRACTITIONERS TO PARTICIPATE?>>Emma: SO THERE IS A MEMBER OF THE TEAM NAMED. [NAME?] AND THEY HAVE A LOT OF CONFERENCES WERE SHAMANIC PRACTITIONERS IN TERMS OF NEO-SHAMANISM SO HE WOULD GO TO THESE CONFERENCES AND INTERACT WITH THESE PRACTITIONERS AND GAUGE THEIR INTEREST AND SO THAT’S HOW WE WERE ABLE TO RECRUIT THEM AND JUST TO FOLLOW UP ON THAT WE ALSO WHENEVER I FIXED. [NAME?] AND. [NAME?] THEY WERE BOTH EXPERIENCED WITH SHAMANISM AND THE KIND OF WERE ONES WHO CALLED US. [INDISCERNIBLE] A MEDICAL TO SHAMANIC JOURNEY WITH THESE SHAMANIC PRACTITIONERS.>>Speaker: IN YOUR PRESENTATION, IN SEARCH OF A CIRCULATORY RESPIRATORY STIMULANT WASN’T THAT THEY DISCOVERED LSD? DID THEY END UP FINDING WHAT THEY WERE IN SEARCH OF ORIGINALLY, OR WAS DOMINIC DOES LSD ALSO FIT FOR THAT.>>Nick: THE RATIONALE BEHIND THAT CHEMICALLY, ALBERT HOFFMAN WAS FOLLOWING THE SIGN OF. [WORD?] WHICH WAS USED FOR THE SAME PURPOSE AND THE CIRCULATORY THAT’S WHY HE PUT. [WORD?] MY GROUP ON. [WORD?]. ACID TO MY KNOWLEDGE THEY HAD OTHER BASE COMPOUNDS THAT WORK FOR THAT BUT I DON’T BELIEVE THAT LSD WAS EVER ENTERED FOR THAT PURPOSE.>>Speaker: WERE THEY SEARCHING FOR THAT?>>Nick: YEAH. SO. [NAME?] AND SOME OF THE COMPOUNDS THAT SANTOS HAD BEEN WORKING WITH ERGOT ALKALOIDS BASED ON THEIR PROPERTIES SOME OF THE PREVIOUS COMPOUNDS HAD SIMILAR PROPERTIES AND THAT WAS A NEED AT THE TIME.>>George: A QUESTION APPEARED.>>Speaker: THIS IS FOR WHOEVER WANTS TO ANSWER IT. OTHER THAN SPREADING GOOD INFORMATION HOW DO WE INSPIRE PUBLIC TRUST IN THE THERAPEUTIC POTENTIAL OF PSYCHEDELICS?>>Michael: SO I THINK THROUGH RIGOROUS RESEARCH, NUMBER ONE. AND AVOIDING THE MISTAKES OF THE PAST, WE CAN’T GET WRAPPED UP IN PSYCHEDELICS AS A PANACEA. WE HAVE TO TAKE A MEASURED APPROACH GOING FORWARD. AND THE WAY WE GAIN THE PUBLIC PUBLIC TRUST IS THROUGH RIGOROUS SCIENCE.>>Emma: I WOULD ALSO ADD THAT A VERY IMPORTANT PART IS BY HAVING MORE EVENTS LIKE THIS. SO OFTEN WE HAVE THESE PSYCHEDELIC ÃBASIC SCIENCE CONFERENCES THAT JUST AREN’T ACCESSIBLE TO THE GENERAL PUBLIC. SO IT’S JUST SCIENTISTS TELLING SCIENTISTS ABOUT WHAT THEY DID. WHAT WE NEED TO FOCUS ON IS TELLING THE GENERAL PUBLIC ABOUT THE WORK THAT WE ARE DOING SO THAT THEY TRUST THAT WE KNOW WHAT WE’RE DOING AND THAT THEY HAVE A REASON TO KIND OF SUPPORT US.>>Nick: WE JUST TRY TO LET THE SCIENCE SPEAK FOR US WILL TRY TO OVERSTATE THE POSITIVE POTENTIALS AND DON’T UNDERSTATE SOME OF THE NEGATIVE POTENTIALS. AND JUST BE HONEST.>>Speaker: AMEN. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.>>Speaker: DID YOU HAVE A CONTROL MOUSE HOW DO YOU KNOW IT’S THE KETAMINE?>>Michael: THE WEIGHT SERVES AS OUR BASELINE.>>Speaker: LET ME ASK ANOTHER ONE ABOUT WHEN YOU HAVE ANESTHETIC KETAMINE ACADEMY IS BEING USED EITHER FOR ANESTHESIA OR HAS A PRE-ANESTHETIC SEDATIVE PRIOR TO INHALED ANESTHESIA HOW DOES THAT AFFECT THIS CONSCIOUS STATE BECAUSE YOU HAVE A COMPOUND THERE, DON’T YOU?>>Nick: WE HAVE INTERESTING RESEARCH OUT OF OUR LAB THAT WAS LED BY DOCTOR. [NAME?]. DEMONSTRATING THAT SOME ANESTHETIC DOSAGE OF KETAMINE DURING MY SUFFERING ANESTHESIA ACTUALLY DECREASED THE TIME TO EMERGENCE AND SO THERE IS THIS SORT OF PARADOXICAL EFFECT OF GIVING AND ANESTHETIC ON TOP OF ANESTHETIC AND SEEING THAT THEY EMERGE FASTER NONETHELESS.>>Speaker: SO I’VE NOTICED THERE’S BEEN A GREATER FOCUS ON THE RECENT RESEARCH ON A CERTAIN SUBSTANCES MORE THAN OTHERS. AND SO MY QUESTION IS DO YOU THINK THAT THERE IS STILL AN EFFECT OF A LINGERING SOCIAL STIGMA THAT CREATES BARRIERS FOR CERTAIN SUBSTANCES TO BE STUDIED THAT MAKES IT EASIER TO GET FUNDING FOR SOME SUBSTANCES OVER OTHERS?>>I DO THINK THAT’S PART OF THE CASE. LOT OF IT JUST COMES DOWN TO THE LOGISTICS OF GETTING THE SUBSTANCES. SO WE HAVE SCHEDULING LAWS IN THIS COUNTRY AND WE HAVE TO GET CERTAIN LICENSES IN ORDER TO USE THOSE DRUGS IN A RESEARCH. [WORD?]. AND SO THERE ARE NO ABSOLUTE BARRIERS IN PLACE, BUT IT’S QUITE A BIT MORE DIFFICULT TO STUDY MORE CLASSICAL PSYCHEDELICS, AT LEAST IN THE U.S. UNDER THAT CONTEXT.>>George: HAVE A COUPLE OF MINUTES. I WAS WONDERING IF NICK SINCE WE TALKED ABOUT KETAMINE AND SINCE IT’S AN IMPORTANT DRUG IN THIS CONTEXT, CAN YOU MAYBE TALK FOR A COUPLE OF MINUTES ABOUT THE DEVELOPMENT OF KETAMINE AND THE ROLE AT THE UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN IN THAT?>>Nick: LOTS OF PEOPLE DON’T KNOW HOW LONG THE HISTORIC TIES OF THE UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN ACADEMY ARE. IT WAS DEVELOPED AS AN ANESTHETIC AGENT IN COLLABORATION WITH THE ANESTHESIOLOGY DEPARTMENT AND PHARMACOLOGY DEPARTMENT. ROFESSIONAL NAMED ED. [NAME?] WHO I SURE PICTURE EARLIER COLLABORATED WITH. [INDISCERNIBLE] AND THEY ESSENTIALLY WERE WORKING WITH PARK DAVIS WHICH WAS BOUGHT OUT BY PFIZER AND PARKE-DAVIS HAD DEVELOPED PCP WHICH I’M SURE YOU’VE ALL HEARD OF AND PCP CAUSES VERY DISTURBING EFFECTS AND WASN’T A VERY PLEASANT ANESTHETIC IN HUMAN BEINGS. SO THEY WERE SEARCHING FOR A BETTER VERSION OF PCP AND A MAN NAMED CALVIN STEVENS AT WAYNE STATE UNIVERSITY SYNTHESIZED KETAMINE IS ONE OF THE ANALOGUES OF PVC AND SUBMITTED IT FOR TESTING AND AT THE PHARMACOLOGY DEPARTMENT HERE DID A LOT OF ANIMAL TESTING AND THEN IN COLLABORATION WITH THE ANESTHESIOLOGY DEPARTMENT PERFORMED THE FIRST HUMAN TRIALS AT THE JACKSON STATE PRISON. SO KETAMINE WAS ESSENTIALLY DEVELOPED AND IT WAS USED AS AN ANESTHETIC VERY SUCCESSFULLY. IT WAS VERY SUCCESSFULLY USED ON THE BATTLEFIELDS AND SITUATIONS OF TRAUMA BECAUSE IT’S VERY RAPIDLY ACTING AND EVENTUALLY IT BECAME VERY POPULAR AND USEFUL IN VETERINARY MEDICINE. KETAMINE WAS HEAVILY ABUSED. KETAMINE BECAME SCHEDULED AND IT WAS TRADITIONALLY A SCHEDULE THREE. AND THEN IN THE EARLY 90s A MAN NAMED JOHN KRISTAL AT YALE DID A STUDY LOOKING AT BASICALLY TRYING TO MODEL DIFFERENT TYPES OF PSYCHOSIS WITH KETAMINE AND SEE IF IT COULD INDUCE PSYCHOTIC STATES AND BY ACCIDENT TO THE LENGTH OF HIS PROTOCOL MANY OF THE SUBJECTS REPORTED THAT THEY WERE FEELING MUCH BETTER AND LESS DEPRESSED THAN THEY HAD PREVIOUSLY. AND SO HE HAD THE WHEREWITHAL TO STUDY THAT FURTHER AND THEN PUBLISHED A PAPER. AND TO SOMEONE! EARLIER ABOUT THE STIGMA SURROUNDING DRUGS. KETAMINE IS A GREAT EXAMPLE. KETAMINE IS ADDICTIVE AND CAN BE VERY PSYCHEDELIC BUT THE MEDICAL COMMUNITY IS VERY QUICK TO USHER KETAMINE IS A NEW MEDICINE FOR DEPRESSION A LOT QUICKER THAN MAYBE USING SOME OF THE OTHER TRADITIONAL PSYCHEDELICS THAT HAD LOTS OF STATEMENTS AROUND. YES.>>I WANT TO THANK ALL OF YOU AGAIN FOR A FANTASTIC TALK. GREAT RESPONSES AND ALSO VERY MATURE AND POISE PERSPECTIVES ON THE WIDER LANDSCAPES. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. [APPLAUSE] >>George: AND I WANT TO THANK THE AUDIENCE BEGAN. YOU’VE JUST DONE A WONDERFUL JOB ASKING VERY FOCUSED QUESTIONS. SOMETIMES THESE DISCUSSIONS CAN REALLY RUN OFF THE RAILS. I’VE SEEN IT BEFORE. AND SO THANK YOU FOR BEING SO ENGAGED. AND IT’S BEEN A WONDERFUL MORNING. WE HAVE LUNCH THAT WILL BE SERVED ACROSS THE HALL IN ASSEMBLY HALL AND THEN AFTER PEOPLE GET THE FOOD AND START TO SETTLE DOWN WE WILL PLAY THE VIDEO THAT WE PLANNED TO EARLIER. THANK YOU TO ALL OF OUR SPEAKERS AND ESPECIALLY FOR GRAD STUDENTS THANKS TO ALL OF YOU AND I WILL SEE YOU BACK HERE IN ABOUT AN HOUR OR SO. good afternoon. Today is September 12, Today is September 12, 2019. Test test Captioner standing by. We employed the bear minimum of preparation of subjects. Supervision of their sessions and interpretation of the experience after drug effects wore off. We told the volunteers that the effects began nearly instantaneously, peaked quickly and were over within half an hour. Also, they would feel disassociated from their bodies and might fear they had died. In this case, I reassured them that no deaths had ever been reported and besides, we were in the hospital and if any problems arose, we could deal with it. Otherwise, asked him to pay careful attention to the experience and that we would talk about it once they came down. The goal was not the attainment of any state or resolution of any problem. Rather, it was simply to have their own experience, to let the pharmacology of the drug in the person of the volunteer interact and result in the final effect. Next slide. It’s worth mentioning that we also began some dose finding work with suicide men and gave up to 1.1 milligrams per kilogram of the drug. We settled on a houose of — wh is about twice what is considered a high dose in contemporary studies. While the effects of DMT were profound, other were intense, we found that ultimately, people’s experience represented simply more of who they already were. The nihilists became more nihilistic, the software designer, sell the origin of information bites, the religious studies major in college underwent an enlightenment’s experience. The New Age acolyte was traumatized by his own shadow. In many ways, these findings were consistent with strong — Stan Grubbs early notion of psychedelics being nonspecific amplifiers. Next slide. This is a crucial point, one that is more often than not overlooked in a rush to glorify the drug’s potential benefits and minimize their potential risks. That is, the belief that they are inherently beneficial or inherently spiritual. Rather psychedelic to work on bones pre-existing personality more or less conscious, which means that one must acknowledge the existence of and the effects of the unconscious. These variables include one’s wishes, expectations, hopes, fears, beliefs, education, values and life experience. They won’t turn someone into something that they are not and do not want to be, which is why psychedelics were never found to be especially useful as brainwashing tools. People entering a depression study wish to be less depressed. Those entering a substance abuse study, want to stop using drugs. Those wishing for spiritual progress, want to become more open, accepting and compassionate. People answering survey questionnaires are also self-selected in that they take psychedelics for particular reasons. Once we consider generally outstanding and help for them to occur. No one has ever become a serial killer in any of the research projects I’m aware because becoming a serial killer is not a goal of those who answered these questionnaires or participate in these studies. This is a serious obstacle. In terms of both lab and survey studies; that is, we do not count for these pre-existing factors. On the other hand, the data coming in from current studies are remarkably positive. Alcohol and tobacco dependence, depression, OCD, eating disorders, anxiety, spiritual progress, end-of-life despair, posttraumatic stress disorder, which, although studies have focused on MDMA, there’s no reason to believe that the classical drugs will be any less effective. Nature appreciation, prisoner recidivism, domestic violence, the list goes on. Next slide, please. The word that comes to mind here is panacea. In panacea is when they went have the placebo effect. And the placebo effect when beneficial marshals the hearing — healing process. Ego her toque sent from Harvard and Israel has emphasized how the setting relate to presleep — placebo enhancement. Excuse me. In the clinical setting, any clinical interventions are optimized through the optimization of said in settin , that maximizes the placebo effect of the intervention or the circumstances in which that intervention takes place. In other words, set in setting work through placebo, the mental state of the individual, more or less conscious. Powerfully influences the outcome. The results. HO has subsequently termed this enhancing properties of psychedelics. The Imperial knowledge group not long ago Dell is just — demonstrated that LSD suggested — suggestibility mediocrity — this report extends research from the 1960’s where hypnosis augmented the effects of LSD in normal volunteers. The inherently neutral meaning enhancing effects of psychedelics, the reliance on nondrug factors, can be illustrated by what might be called the Charles Manson model of psychedelic drug administration. Manson’s volunteers, so to speak, or disaffected violent marginally socialized people looking to avenge themselves on a society they believed had oppressed them. Rather, the meaning enhancing effects of LSD, combined with Manson’s model of helter-skelter, the race war, the belief that his group would rule over the post-apocalyptic society to cold and receptive minds. It made sense. It was more real than anything had been previously and they were nondedicated to the cause. ÃThey were now dedicated to the cause. The next slide. Rating scales that simply measure something you already are convinced UVA Ãpsychedelic effect Ãseems to me a serious case of confirmation bias. Relying on them heavily is deeply problematic. The rating scale data say less about the effects of the drugs than the researchers intent in a string them. Their own pre-existing beliefs. Or example, I 2005 German study investigating the relationship between the EMT state and schizophrenia found one. That is, high scores on symptom scales of schizophrenia. This doesn’t mean that volunteers were schizophrenic. Just as high scorers on a mystical experience scale don’t mean that someone is having a mystical experience. Similarly, I compared the phenomena analogy of the DMT effect with that of the biblical prophetic experience in my follow-up book called DMT and the soul of praecipe à prophecy. And found an extraordinarily high correspondence between descriptions of the two syndromes. On the other hand, high scores on a rating scale measuring the prophetic state could hardly be indications that those volunteers were experiencing prophecy. Phenomenal overlap is not an identity. Next slide. I think it is heuristically useful to consider psychedelics as super placebos, the notion of the nonspecific Antal amplifier one step further. That is the proximate cause, reflected in acute pharmacology, brain circuitry, neural plasticity, modifications of phenomenal psychological processes, that downstream manifest has remission of sub — depression, sobriety and someone is the activation of the placebo response. In other words psychedelics may prove more important helping us understand this fundamental property of the human mind brain complex than simply being new tools in our psychopharmacological — that is mechanistic probes that investigate the relationship between unconscious mind-brain activity, subjective experience and self-regulation. This is why maintaining an open mind regarding how psychedelics work is so important. For example, while a mystical my medic experience may be — may be associated with more positive outcomes, it may not be the experience that heals itself. Rather, it is the experience which is one of — of several possible manifestations of a fully activated placebo response. There are bound to be many others. Or example, someone may stutter because during a drug experience, invoice says stop drinking now. So, the optimal dose of a psychedelic may relate more to a theoretical optimal window for enhancing the placebo effect, rather than the attainment of any particular state of being. The super placebo effect can return to beneficial tomorrow — especially in situations when marshaling of the placebo effect has been established as key, which, when you think about it, encompasses all of clinical medicine, psychotherapy, pharmacotherapy, chemotherapy, surgery and so on. Next slide. Before moving on to the implications of recent discoveries regarding the existence of DMT in the brain, I wish to mention the relative Ãthe relative DMT research certainly compare that with so siding and even in the case of LSD in Europe. While researching the effects of Iowa Scott, DMT lacks behind. I mention the German study from 2005. Now, the only center in the world administering pure DMT is Imperial College with the lead investigator being Chris Timmerman also in the audience today. It’s quite exciting to see the — the potential therapeutic utility of being able to come in real time, titrate the psychedelic as well as the sober state of consciousness will provide a novel approach to psychedelic assisted therapy. However, before engaging in experimental protocols including brain imaging with people being continuously infused with DMT, I hope that they spent a good long time with their volunteers simply characterizing the state. Can volunteers establish a certain stability in the DMT space, and Trent Ãinteract with its content and learn to navigate it in a more leisurely manner? Now, how does the placebo effect, by means of which I believe psychedelics exert a profound and wide-ranging effects tying Ãtie in with DMT? And what follows — it’s not only the placebo effect which deserves attention in the DMT story, but more of the construction of a larger sense of the role of that compound in everyday consciousness. Next slide. John’s work raises the possibility that there is a DMT neurotransmitter system can with transmitters like serotonin, dopamine. Each of these can be defined in a most general way, serotonin regulates emotive fact. Dopamine pleasure and reward. Norepinephrine regulates the state of one’s general activation. In white my the DMT transmitters system mediate? Well the hallmark of the full DMT effect is the sense that what one is withholding is more real. Would it be interesting if the DMT neurotransmitter system mediates our sense of reality. That’s true and incontrovertible. The more active D tone to perform those with ALS active life. And their interactions with both the inner and outer worlds. For example, being more or less evil — able to attach and commit to people and ideas, more or less possessing a coherent sense of self and someone. Or how suggestible are they? In particular, are there differences in the responsiveness to placebo and medical interventions? I’m not qualified to determine to — how such questions could be in animal models and Ãpick is at its infancy. The future studies will begin determining the regulation and expressions variations in the system. Now possible through the groundbreaking studies. Thank you very much. (applause) We okay. Moving on to the afternoon lectures. I’d like to welcome up Michael Brito who is going to introduce our next speaker. He’s busy hitting us from ZC>DR. PRELLER: Thank you. I would like to thank you as an audience for coming here and while listening to these talks and engaging with the researchers who are doing this work. I have entered this field about 10 years ago, which, compared to pioneers like Rick Dalton is very recently. And I was very lucky to be able to enter this field in Switzerland where we have this very long tradition of psychedelic research. However, when I started doing this, I was told from quite a few people that doing this would probably kill my academic career. 10 years later, I’m still here in this field has grown so much and one of the reasons why it has grown so much is because you, as an audience, the general public of the academics are showing interest in us. So thank you so much for being here. So, the research I want to talk about is psychedelic behavior and studies in humans. So to make this — here we go. So to make this a little bit more specific, the two psychedelic agents that I’m going to talk about our silicide and LSD. So psilocybin, has been referred to in a recent Roxanne silicide and is the main active compound of the so-called mushrooms and while LSD we barely talked about this and both substances endued similar psychedelic sates states however the newer biology or the newer pharmacology it’s pretty different. So why silicide been stimulates in particular the serotonin LSD facilitates document receptors and this will become important for the studies we conducted with LSD. So, in particular, Chris has ever talked a little bit about subjective effects and I want to spend two slides and talk about this again because I think that the subject is important to eventually — to alter the findings of the therapeutic substances. So they are of course the most well-known and they’re the easiest to show to the audience. So that’s, of course, but I will start with. So what happened under the influence of LSD or psilocybin at the doses we administer in the lab, it might happen that colors might start to appear much brighter. Things are colors might start to change completely. Things might start to get blurry and the most common thing is that people perceive movement whether usually is none. However, of course, these experiences, these visual alterations are not the only effects of psychedelics. You have seen these pictures in this questionnaire in at least two dogs by now. So I’m just going to give you a quick reminder that is not only about the visual effects, it’s also about alterations and self perception what we are talking about experiencing spiritual experiences blissful, that participants often experience under the influence of psychedelics, LSD, this one is psilocybin. And some of them might turn out to be therapeutically beneficial. In talking about therapeutic effects, there have been quite a few studies in recent years talking about the treatment of mainly mood disorders and addiction, but also OCD where the substances have been shown to produce very interesting and beneficial effects. So, right now insert, we are conducting clinical research. However, this is not necessarily what I want to talk about today here. But rather, I want to present the work that we have been doing with healthy participants. In the reason why we are interested in working with healthy participants is, well first of all, we think that psychedelics offer this unique opportunity to study clinically relevant phenomena like the ones we just talked about. For example, alterations and self experience that we can otherwise hurt the study because they are very hard to infuse. And the other reason is that by increasing the mechanistic and the pharmacological understanding of the substances, we hope to fully uncover that clinical potential. So, there are two main questions that I want to address in this talk today and the first is what is the pharmacology and the neurobiology of psychedelic substances in humans? And what are the potentials for psychedelics? And so I’m kind of going back in time a little bit to the pharmacology of LSD. I mentioned already on my first slide that LSD is targeting the right — variety of receptors in the brain. Serotonin and dopamine receptors. From the literature, we already knew that while the serotonin receptor is potentially very important because this is a common mechanism that’s served — shared by all psychedelics but the literature suggests that there might be a second case of psychedelic effect produced by LSD, that is more by dopamine relation. So before we conducted the study, the contribution of these different receptors in the human and — it wasn’t known at all. So we were interested in finding out about the contribution of the serotonin through a receptor. Again, it was important for the effective psychedelics — like psilocybin for example. So what we did is we use the second substance, which is called can answering. Can answering is a more or less serotonin to a receptor antagonist. So when we administered can answering it blocked it to a receptor. So we did that and then after that we gave people LSD so, then LSD was able to simulate all the other receptors but it wasn’t able to simulate the serotonin to a receptor because this one was locked by ketanserin. So we basically it gave us the opportunity to find out what exactly was left in terms of LSD effect when this receptor was not reached by LSD? In these are the first results. And those are — again, these are the subjective experience effects of LSD in our healthy population. What you can see here in pink is what LSD does. And actually, this is not — this is really not that interesting because what we can see her in pink is that basically LSD does what LSD is supposed to do. It induces an alternate state of consciousness. The next uninteresting part of the green bars. And the placebo is doing almost nothing, like basically what a placebo is supposed to do. And so the interesting parts of the yellow parts because they are the condition where we first administer ketanserin and then administered LSD afterward. As you can see all the effects are blocked when we administered ketanserin. First participants could not distinguish between placebo and — and ketanserin plus LSD; meaning, that basically all of the subjective effects of the dose we administered, which is 100 micrograms, are dependent on the serotonin to a receptor. To address the question of will are there different cases, we obviously did not just at them afterwards, but we had them fill out this questionnaire multiple times during the acute phase in also we received ketanserin blocks the effects from the beginning to the end. So moving on from subjective data to normal data. We have participants in the scanner and measured — and for analyzing these — this data we took a slightly different approach than previously presented by Chris. We did not necessarily look at different networks here, but what we did here is we used an approach called global brain connectivity. In here we correlate the connectivity between each and the rest of the brain. These are functional data showing and blue increase cognitively with this particular part of the brain with the rest of the brain and in the warm colors we see increased connectivity of this area with the rest of the brain. And I think there are two important messages in this slide. And the first passage is pretty obvious to I assume many in the audience have been trained in brain anatomy. And I think it is pretty striking to see the pattern here. Because we see this increased connectivity in particular in sensorimotor regions like this vortex here and here. Whereas the blue regions are really the ones which are associated with the associated networks. So the psychedelic state here, what we see is increased connectivity in areas that are responsible for processing sensory information within our own body or with the outside world. And decreased connectivity in regions which are responsible for integrating this information. And I think that intuitively it makes a lot of sense if we think about this subjective effects that may in the previous speakers have already described. It’s a state that is very sensory. So a lot of sensory information is being processed. From the outside world. But the way we bring this information together and the way we integrate it is certainly very different from a regular consciousness. And I think this can also explain things like well why do we perceive the world and our own personalities as if they were new? Why do we enter these new meanings of things. And by psychedelics are able to break up rigorous thinking patterns. Well the answer to this question will be that we integrate this information that we receive in a different and new way. The second important information on this slide is concerning the pharmacology and this is basically what you can see in these bar graphs in the bar graphs here. So again green is placebo, Pincus LSD, yellow is ketanserin plus LSD. What you can see no difference between ketanserin and LSD is a placebo. Ketanserin does not only block the subjective level but about — blocks the effects of measure. No being researchers, we are always looking for confirmation for the things we have found. So we added a second method to, again, look at whether the serotonin to A receptors is indeed as important as we were hypothesizing. So we use the methods that was developed at Yale University by John Murray. And what they did is they generated a cortical surface mount. And it came from the — which is postmortem brain. So samples of poorest Ãpost more in brain. They met this on the surface, which then gave us the opportunity to correlate the maps with our imaging data. And the result of this is shown here. So, this is our LSD map. I showed it to you before. And this is the spatial localization of the serotonin to a receptor expression. As we correlate these we see that those two are highly correlated and are much higher correlated than the other receptors that LSD is stimulating. And in case you’re wondering, if this also translate to psilocybin, indeed it does. Because psilocybin, which is over here, and LSD use strikingly similar patterns and alterations and connectivity in the brain. It might give us an idea that this kind of differentiation between networks and associate regions might be underlying at the psychedelic state to a certain degree. The other thing that we look at in our study with psilocybin is we investigated time-dependent effects. Because many studies are measuring these effects, especially in the scanner, I different time points. We were interested in what happens when a trip starts. And what you can see here is over here this is 20 minutes after administration, 40 minutes in 70 minutes. What you can see is the first Effexor to show up in the visual cortex which aligns with what our participants tell us. So the first things that they experience are usually that they start to see the floating things. This might be aligned with alterations in functional connectivity and visual areas. And then, slowly but steadily, we see this pattern of differentiation between associated networks emerging over time. The peak effects here. Also, we were interested in might there be something that is helpful in predicting how strong people react to psychedelic substances? Because in other studies, it has been shown that while the quality and the quantity of psychedelic effects correlates with treatment success. So we were interested in could we predict this? And what you see here is a correlation between their placebo scans, the baseline skin, with the magnitude of changes infused by psilocybin. Also emerging again over time. So, this could give us — so if this holds true also in a clinical population, we might be able to predict from the baseline scans how strongly they will react to psilocybin and therefore, may be give us a tool to already stratify patients for once it will react strongly in one that won’t. We then went on to test another model that has been proposed to underlie psychologic à psychedelic effects. It has been proposed about 10 years ago. And based on animal studies, these two authors said that psychedelics act anyway that the ventral striations loses — and the cell immerses usually regulating the inflammations that reaches the cortex and therefore reaches consciousness. So they said that the Salamis is basically out of control and just sent a lot of information to the cortex which meets the sensory overload in the sensory overload is what is it is experienced as a psychedelic state. And new (indiscernible) — gave us the opportunity to actually test these projections. So what we did here is we use the method called ‘s pectoral dynamic because of modeling that allows us to measure direct connectivity. So the one I was talking before is just a correlation and tells us how strongly brain regions interact with each other. But this method tells us, if you reach — which brain region is driving the activity. It has the disadvantage that at least for the time being, we cannot do this for the whole brain, but we have to be selective in the regions we look at. So therefore we selected regions which have been shown to be modulated by psychedelics in key regions for the salami filter. And these are drugs. And so first of all, in line with this proposed normal, we see it shows decreased connectivity. And the Salamis has increased connectivity to the posterior Cortes Ãcortex. It certainly is an area that has repeatedly been shown to be modulated by psychedelic substances. All of this is in line with this model. However, we also found that the Salamis has decreased connectivity to the temporal cortex. Meaning that it does not seem like it — the Salamis is sending information to the cortex and just a sensory overload. And I guess also, that makes it — make sense because the psychedelic state is not usually — is not necessarily chaotic — which a sensory overload would probably be. But it is — it has some kind of structure. And therefore, even though many of the predictions of the model hold true, it rather seems that the Salamis thalamus Salamis is sending information. And then by integrating the information differently as producing the psychedelic state. So, this — I just want to briefly sum up this part of the presentation because this is the very short answers that I could get for the first question, what is the neurobiology and pharmacology of the psychedelic. We have seen that the LSD as well as the neuronal effects aren’t mainly dependent on the receptor. Were seeing this increased — at the same time, it’s reduced associated regions may underlie a psychedelic say. We seem baseline — (indiscernible) And we have seen that the connected to video or direct changes introduced by LSD or at least partially The second part was concerning the question will which of these effects induced by the psychedelics might really be therapeutically helpful? And I will focus on one specific — one specific function that psychedelics are altering. And this is social cognition. And Rick already talked a lot about social cognition and why this might be important. But I just pursuant to mention this again. So alterations in social cognition are symptoms of many psychiatric disorders. And not only are they — they are really implementing development — in the treatment of disorders because it — the therapeutic process is a social one. So if we think about a schizophrenic patient for example, we are pretty much able to treat positive symptoms like hallucinations, for example. But if these people still kind of act socially awkward, they will have difficulties finding a job and keeping a job and well integrating into real-world functioning again. In the main issue is that these alterations in social behaviors are insufficiently improved by current treatment approaches. And this is one of the things where I think psychedelics have a massive therapeutic potential. And the reason why think this is what I’m going to show you in just a few seconds. So, to give you a bit of background, we mentioned this before, psychedelics reduce the processing of negative information. Mostly, in the — and we see this behaviorally. But decreased processing of negative information. Now we were wondering what happens to psychiatric’s patients? Usually they don’t sit in front of computers and look at negative pictures, right? But what actually happens to them is social rejection. They get excluded from their social environment. And so, we were wondering, is psilocybin affecting direction to — to social rejection? And so we had our participants playing a game in the scanner and during this game, they could throw a ball to either Michael or Sarah. They had been introduced to both of them before they were administered substance. What happened after a while is that Michael and Sarah stopped playing with our participants. So they excluded him from this game. And we are not the first to apply this paradigm, but quite contrary, this paradigm has been applied many times. And even though it might not sound so terrible being excluded from the game with two persons as you hardly know, it really reliably induces a feeling of being socially rejected. And it also reliably induces — in the interior singular cortex. And when you do the same paradigm, the same game with psychiatric patients like your for example borderline personality disorder patients, they show an increased reaction to the social exclusion. So what happens when we give them psilocybin? Well, first of all, we asked them well how did that feel to you? And we see that on a scale — on the psilocybin they reported reduced feeling of being socially excluded. Of course you might think wow. They had psilocybin. So there’s a lot — you know, there are so many things going on. So did they even realize they were excluded? So of course we asked the many questions, for example we asked them to guess how many ball throws they have received a really, this was the only thing that was different from placebo. They were completely aware that they were excluded. But emotionally, it wasn’t just as terrible for them as in the placebo condition. And also, we look at the brain activity we see that this region and the interior singular cortex, the pain signal is reduced. So, a general interest also in the pharmacology behind things. So what we did is we also did (indiscernible) in the same area here. To investigate neurotransmitter concentrations in this brain area. And here we saw a pretty impressive correlation between the concentration in this region and is reduced in the interior singular cortex. Suggesting that may be the acid had system may be involved in modulating social cognitive functions. So this brings me to almost the last Ãlast I want to present. Rick already mentioned up at the end however they might be terribly important in the therapeutic process. So we wanted to see whether psilocybin is able to modulate. Empathy is hard to construct so were talking about (indiscernible) which means that a person is able to understand which emotional state without having to feel the same. Emotional empathy on the other hand means to actually feel with this other person. And we tested both. And what we saw here is that psilocybin increased empathy, but only emotional empathy. So it increased how strongly they felt with the people. There were no differences in cognitive empathy. So they were not able to better tell us what another person was feeling, but they were also not worse which is good, again, because that shows us they were actually able to complete the task. We had another task which was about moral decision-making. Again, we did not find any effects on moral decision-making, at least not acutely. It doesn’t seem like the participants change their moral behavior under the influence of psychedelics. However, both cognitive empathy as well as moral decision-making might be something that you just cannot change acutely by a substance. Maybe this is something that we need to check again post acuity may be a week or month after we had given them psilocybin. So, to wrap it up, we have seen that psilocybin and LST mall à monitor out — we’ve seen that may be important targets for the effects of psychedelics as well as the development of medication. And the reduction in social — (indiscernible) — increases empathy may be it may be therapeutically relevant. So thank you very much for listening to this talk and of course thank you to the people that have been involved in the research. (applause). Thank you very much. Questions from the audience? Again, please come to the microphone.>>>Is it on?>>>Hello. There we go. By what standard did you use to test moral — like the morality seem very subjective as far as far as what is correct and what’s not?>>DR. PRELLER: So we used a standard test scores usually — it’s a moral dilemmas task really. There is no right or wrong, but you see that some people have a tendency, in one or the other direction. And we didn’t see any alterations in these tendencie . Again, is a dilemmas task. So it’s not like you are — you are better or worse. But — well it was not able to modulate this. But again, this certainly needs more investigation.>>>It was a standard. They just behave the same way before and after?>>>Yes.>>>Thank you. In regards to the ketanserin, cannot be given after LST or psilocybin has been given to as possibly like a harm reduction?>>DR. PRELLER: Yes. So, there is no scientific evidence that it can. But anecdotally, it seems like the a radically — theoretically you could do that. You would have to administer IV, though, just because of the long duration until it starts acting. However, I really advise against this. Because I think it — there are many — there are many ways of how to deal with, you know, a bad trip. And a bad trip usually means that people are anxious. So like talking to people, listening to music, if none of this helps, I would rather give a benzodiazepine. And that does not have the experience of living through the difficult experience and overcoming the difficult experience and finishing the rest of the trip instead of just taking them out of the experience that might eventually be traumatic because they haven’t been able to experience how it goes away again. (applause) We that’s when you know you’re good when you get applause after. (laughing).>>>Hello. I noticed today that most of the research has been done on — that are high-level doses for the average individual. His attorney researcher studies conducted recently on lower levels, especially with the rise of micro-dosing?>>DR. PRELLER: Yes. So there are two rigorous scientific studies which are based on data published of low doses of LSD. So both of them are — while subjective mainly in psychological tests, both of them are — they are out there. They are published already. You can look them up. Well to summarize the results, really briefly is not much has happened. We will publish a study hopefully soon about (indiscernible) effects where — so I think that the only thing I can mention by now is there are changes in the brain, which are interesting, >>>(indiscernible).>>DR. PRELLER: Yes. So all of these — well there’s very little research out there. And but from the things that are published right now, my summary or my take away would be well it doesn’t necessarily seem like low doses of LSD are creative or a cognitive enhancer, there might be therapeutically interesting effects in their. So what were talking about healthy participants, maybe not so much. But in the population thinks might be different. And also the studies that are published right now, they’re not investigating regular dosing but they’re just administering — so things might (indiscernible) HiIt was a decrease in negative perceptions? I was wondering your kind of story or explanation about people perceiving anxieties or perceiving negative attitudes and others when he isn’t there. Mainly people have self-reports of increased at Ãanxieties.>>DR. PRELLER: I’m not entirely sure if I understood 100 percent, but you’re asking about where do the bad trips come from? Where is the increased anxiety coming from?>>>You were saying there was experimental evidence that there was a decrease in social anxieties, but many anecdotal experiences of people have increased anxieties. What’s the story there?>>DR. PRELLER: Yes. Again, as I mentioned before, the East Coast can vary a lot from a safe environment that were trying to create. And an environment which is uncontrolled like taking LSD. And so what from I’ve seen and heard from our participants is that usually, this anxiety that people describe as a bad trip is not necessarily coming from paranoid ideas. So they are not — not seeing anyone else in bad or something. But most of the people are just very anxious. And that is usually for anxiety starts. I’m losing control about what I’m doing. I’m losing control about the time, is this going to stop? And so, it’s not about you suddenly see someone, you know, being vicious or whatever. It’s really more about him anxious because I kind of — I do not know what is going on or not feeling in control anymore. And that is something that we try to handle well I say were very successful in a controlled environment. We in terms of consciousness, was born ÃI was wondering if you looked at the dorsal — which is often linked to consciousness and how that’s affected by LSD or other drugs like psychedelics and the way to other brain regions and pathways.>>>So this is interesting. In all the analysis we’ve done, we been looking for the anterior (indiscernible). And importantly, never showed up too much in our analysis. But also, I think the way — maybe we should change a little bit of how we think about the brain regions because usually there’s no one brain region which does this and that. It’s always about the interaction between different brain regions. And we, again, we have not necessarily found a huge involvement of the interior until her maybe if we use others that might be very different, or maybe it’s just we have and use the right analysis right now where we were able to catch — capture the involvement but right now I can’t present any evidence that the anterior insula is involve .>>>Great talk. Thanks for your time. So the interesting data to me is your modeling for the additional receptors that — to your knowledge, has it been any studies that investigated those compounds and if so to what degree did they suppress the drug?>>>So as a (indiscernible) — ketanserin — the mind repeating IP.>>>At the five Ãversus some of the other receptors that came up on your screen. What’s in Ãthe antagonisms decrease.>>DR. PRELLER: Importantly, we don’t know. This was the first study in humans that was ever conducted. I’m pretty sure that the other receptors that are targeted by LSD do have a functional role they probably modulate the experience. But we need to find out about this by specifically blocking them. And so far no one has done that. So the only thing that we can say right now is that while serotonin to a receptor needs to be there. It needs to be simulated. If that isn’t the case and basically, nothing happens. That doesn’t mean that the other receptors do not have any functional role but they need to raise — the serotonin. Thank you so very much. (applause). I think we need to give special accommodations to Chris who just came in from Europe yesterday. (applause) And we are still incredibly stimulated. So Nick is going to introduce our next speaker. Thank you very much. It’s my great pleasure to introduce doctor Alan Davis. He is the assistant professor at an adjunct assistant professor at the John Hawkins Doctor Davis obtained his Masters in HD and Masters from Bowling Green State University. He completed fellowships in psychiatry in Michigan as well as John Hopkins. Doctor Davis is also a licensed psychologist with experience working with people diagnosed with trauma-based problems such as addiction, depression and anxiety. His research and interest focus on the knowledge of and ability to help those suffering with substance abuse and mental health problems. Understanding how to improve clinical outcomes and developing ways to help mental health problems through a strength-based approach. He focuses on — exploring mechanisms by which psilocybin improves mental health. Please join me in giving a warm welcome to Dr. Alan Davis (applause).>>DR. DAVIS: Thank you. And thanks again for inviting back to the University of Michigan. I’m really excited to be here. And you’ve always treated me well. It’s great to be here today. I’m kind of curious if I can get a show of hands at how many are currently a clinician or a clinician in training or have interest in pursuing the clinical field. Great. Yes. Welcome. That is definitely my initial passion for this work. And so, I’ve been fortunate enough to get really great hands-on training at Johns Hopkins as a binary therapist for suicide psychotherapy. Today be presenting on research, but the focus of my research and my interest is in the therapist had. So I’m curious about why these substances, psilocybin in particular, seems to bring about therapeutic changes in the people I work with. I’ll try to focus on that.>>>Actually, hold on one second. I will pause just for a moment. Thus the right side. All right. Thank you. It’s not coming up. Is this computer connected to their because this is not the slide. . Thank you. All right. So, to get started, none of this work would not be possible without a great team of people at Hopkins. Those are most of the results and you can see the members of our team represented not photo including my mentor Roland Griffith and Fred Barrett poor coinvestigators — Fred Barrett is. AInvestigators. Also funding for our work has been recently announced has come from some private donors as well as a nonprofit foundation. Our prior studies have been funded by the river six foundation, so my outline today is to discuss with you some of the — quantum change effects that we are seeing with psilocybin assisted therapy we’ve done some analysis with our depression data as well as several large-scale survey studies where we are getting a better sense of the types of experiences that people have with the psychedelics in a natural environments. I’ll discuss those as well. But just to start off and I’m pretty sure everyone if not before today but hopefully before this presentation is a sense of what I mean when I say mystical experience. But if you don’t wear your curious about the terminology that would think about this experience, is listed on the screen. A mystical experience that will be talking about today usually includes things like having a deeply felt spiritual or other type of — for some people religious — for some more of a universal experience to connection. A positive mood, transcendence of their usual sense of time and space and a sense that it cannot be adequately described in words. Something that we’ve been getting interesting is also the importance of insight. Those of you who are clinicians of some kind, insight is a widely term and we talked a lot about this. I think in the field of psychology and social work, surprisingly there’s not a whole lot of measures of acute instances of insight that someone might gain as part of the psychotherapy experience. So one thing we’ve done is create a measure of insight in order to get a better sense of during a psychedelic experience, what types of insight do people get?>>>What I mean by insights are having some type of an awareness where a breakthrough or realization are discovery about someone’s emotions, their behaviors and beliefs relationships or memories of some kind. You might imagine that this insight could be powerful if and when it comes up in a psychedelic experience. But what happens when insight and mystical experiences cooccur? So one of the things that we hear from some of our participants is that they might be having a mystical experience at the same time as they are receiving information or some type of novel understanding of themselves in a way that enhances the importance of that experience. This is not necessarily a new term, quantum change was coined by some pretty famous people in the substance abuse treatment world who developed — who wrote interestingly about how mystical and inside experiences or quantum change could help people with substance abuse. They could have a deeply felt transcendent experience that helped him change things in their life and that could be really important. And that it could happen psychotherapeutic Leor spontaneously, without intervention. This might be something that people experience as a rock-bottom, for example. To start off I’m going to talk about our current depression trial. We actually finish wrapping up our primary point for this trial. It’s a waitlist control clinical trial for 24 patients with chronic major depressive disorder. We are still collecting data for our long-term follow-up. We are following people up to year after the intervention. So we are going to be starting to publish this data hopefully this fall. So you are the first to hear the endpoint data. It’s exciting. It’s exciting for me. I hope it’s exciting for you. The primary objective of the study is examining the effects of psilocybin therapy for people with depression. We also had — we gave people narrow imaging session but — both prior to and after their psilocybin intervention. And we were looking at concentrations. And then we also are interested in, again, the long-term effect. Whether it’s sustained beyond the short-term. So for those of you who are interested, this is a busy slide. But one of the things I wanted to communicate was how intensive this intervention is. This is not something that people come into easily and it’s not something to get through. What you see on the top of the slide is our immediate treatment conditions. Our immediate treatment was individual screening and engaging right away. Compared to a waitlist control. People came in under the same screening process, but had to wait two months before their intervention began. What was challenging for these folks is as a requirement of entrance, they had to be free of antidepressants. They had to come up there antidepressant in order to screen for the study. You might imagine how many people were upset when they couldn’t get into the study after coming off of there antidepressant. It’s a challenge. These people were highly motivated and desiring change. The interesting thing is that it was not a hard sell to get people to come off there antidepressant support because they working to well to begin with. But some people do decline in functioning as a result. That was part of the challenge of working with folks. The intervention included after screening included several preparatory sessions for myself or one of our dyads therapists would work with the individual to get — to get to know them, develop a rapport, do the things that a therapist would do with the patient or client. And as part of that, we would talk extensively about the psychedelic experience. We would do our best to prepare them for what might happened on their psilocybin day. What I can tell you is that preparation spread over about two weeks, sometimes it did not do a whole lot to prepare people for their experience. There’s only so much you can cover. And the psilocybin experience is so varied that mostly what we want to do is create a solid relationship. We want people to know their safe a lot of things, but they are experiencing anxiety, that they have trusted people there that can help them. And so that’s our main function during our preparation stage. Some of you might be curious about the psychotherapeutic approach. In general it’s an eclectic approach. That might be changing going forward for some of the trials might be looking at more specifics. Psychotherapy psychotherapeutic approaches we fall into a motivational interviewing with a little bit of PBT in there for good measure. But it does vary by therapist of what we are doing with folks. In this study they were receiving two doses of psilocybin. They started off with a moderate dose, 20 milligrams per 70 kilograms which is equivalent to around three grams of dried mushrooms. In the second session they have the option to go to a higher dose and that was 30 milligrams. Nobody decided not to go to the higher dose (laughing) with the exception of one participant who decided to not continue with the study. Interestingly the reason they decided not to continue is because they had a robust antidepression effect that was challenging session and they decided they were not depressed and was no reason to have a second test. So we kept following up with them in their depression — we saw them for a six month follow-up there depression was remitted after that one session. After the second psilocybin session we followed up with them weekly and then monthly and then three, six and 12 months. At each session they meet with their therapist and they have essentially a one hour psychotherapy session or an integration session as we call them or we are helping people to integrate the experience into their daily life as best they can. And essentially that’s the same intervention that people received eight weeks after enrolling in the trial. So this is a big figure that shows how many people at the top, 870, or eligible to get to our final sample of 24. So I think the big take away is that there are a lot of different types of depression and there’s a lot of other problems that come along with depression and unfortunately because of the limitations of research, we only had so much capacity to broaden our scope to allow some of those issues into the therapeutic context of our study. We did — people had to have depression as a primary condition. We worked with people if they had secondary problems related to PTSD, anxiety and a variety of anxiety. We had some people with other emotional problems, but that couldn’t be there primary problem that they were coming in for. So in our immediate treatment group, we had a final sample of 13 we had 11 in our deep — delay treatment group. So of these 24 volunteers with moderate to severe depression — that’s rated by a blinded raters so someone unaffiliated with the study met with them to do all of their depression ratings so that we had some kind of blinding of that assessment. And the demographics, most of them were in their late 30’s or older. We had — the range varied from I think her youngest was 22 and our oldest participant was 67 — 65? Most of them were men and most of them were white men and most of them were heterosexual white man which is a challenge for this type of research. It was interesting to me living in Baltimore while we are surrounded by so much diversity, the difficulty with which we had — or the difficulties that we had for people of color. In part I think there’s a part of topic around that that we could get into, but specifically, around institutional privilege and the abuse of that privilege in the Baltimore area has been — has pretty strong historical roots. We had better ability to recruit folks for our other studies when we went outside the Baltimore area which is unfortunate. I think there’s more work that needs to be done there. Most people in the study had experience depression for a long time on average over two decades and there were no differences between our two groups. This is our main finding. It’s very exciting. When we look at all those people, what we found was at one weekend four weeks after the Emperor — intervention, we had a significant decrease in depression as measured by the blinded — what’s really exciting is not only is there statistical difference, but the effect for one weekend four week primary endpoints are 2.9 and 3.4. Nettie give you all some perspective for those of you who don’t know, those are about 3 to 4 times greater than would be considered a large effect in standard clinical trials. Do keep in mind, we excluded 830 people from this study. So because of that flexibility is almost certain that the facts would have been decreased when you start thinking about what depression looks like with most people who have depression. For people are purely depressed without a lot of problems, it’s a pretty robust and strong effect. It’s exciting.>>>Also will be found is that you meet criteria for a significant response in terms of a depression treatment, that’s defined as having a greater than 50 percent reduction in your scores. What we found is that 62 they had a clinically significant response to — at 104 weeks. To be classified as having full remission, you have to score lower than or equal to seven on our depression scale. And at one and four weeks however more of the study participants had completely — had a complete remission of depression following the intervention. And this is our most recent analysis where we are starting to compare by condition the effect of the treatment. So basically, this was our attempt to have some kind of control — we felt strongly that the placebo, although scientifically rigorous is therapeutically a challenge with people who are struggling with mental health problems. And we decided instead to make sure that everyone got the psilocybin in the study. What we did find we compared those that were in the waitlist delay and those who had the immediate treatment was that these effects that we found were not accounted for by natural fluctuations in depression. The people that came into the study were in the waitlist condition there depression went up slightly. That makes sense if you consider the fact that most of them came off their antidepressant found that they had to wait two months to actually get psilocybin. A lot of them were struggling during that time. But they also had the same amount as is represented by this graph a slightly larger drop in depression scores after the intervention.>>DR. PRELLER: So coming back now — I do have — what is it about this experience that might be accounted for this event? One thing that I mentioned earlier was that mystical experiences can partially account for that and that also it’s possible that inside an account for that. Miller would argue that when both are combined together that that might produce the most robust effects in terms of either one alone. What we found so far in this data is that spiritual could significance which is a proxy for the spiritual meaning of the experience was moderately correlated with change in depression for week. It’s interesting is that psychological insight was more strongly related to the clinical effects of four weeks. Which I think speaks to the importance of not just having a positive experience or a mystical experience, but really getting information, new knowledge or understanding about ways to change things in your life that are creating you’re creating an environment where depression was able to exist. And that is the biggest challenge we’ve seen in the follow-up therapy sessions is that people get the insight and they have this sense of how they want to change their life. Go back to the environment that you are in before, go back to the relationship almost always but almost always go back to the place that you were before and the environment is a piece of the puzzle of why people are depressed to begin with. For some people is difficult to make the changes, to go back into break up with a spouse that they realized during their experience is not someone that is supporting the change — to change their job that is actually co creating a sense of uncertainty about meaning in their life. This is something that the therapy part of this — were frequently involved. Some going to switch gears animal you go through several, take-home points from several errors studies that will seem like I’m beating them over the head with this point of quantum change. I went to get the sense of the fact that we are seeing this not only in the laboratory, were seeing this in naturalistic settings and across of different types of people. The first one is a study that was published in the Journal of psychopharmacology. It was a study in looking at people who recorded having an alcohol use disorder. We were interested in asking them about whether or not they had a beneficial effect of psychedelics in a natural environment. What we found mostly white men, was that most of them had severe or moderate alcohol use disorders. This was celebrated. We asked them to indicate whether they met criteria all of our criteria of a substance abuse order. What’s interesting is one of the things we worried about her most people going to underreport? If anyone given 71 percent said they had a severe alcohol use disorder it might have been that they over reported. But nonetheless, we then asked them about several different factors related to their psychedelic experience that they had. We asked him about things like inside and we asked him about mystical experiences and the other things you see on the screen. This is a complicated figure. But what I wanted to highlight was the importance of experiences in this model predicting decreases in alcohol consumption after a psychedelic experience. Now in this model, those with acute experiences were mediated by the meaning which I think is an interesting role that these acute experiences can happen, but there’s work that needs to be done. If it doesn’t matter to you, if you don’t have the opportunity to make meaning out of it than is possible that they may not lead to such robust changes. There are also a study which was a parallel study done simultaneously what we look at individuals who self-reported either Cannabliss stimulant or opiate abuse problems. And among these folks, most of them, almost 90 percent reported a moderate or severe substance use disorder is one of those drugs. And what we found was a similar model. The insight and mystical experiences are related to a decrease in drug use from before to after that psychedelic experience. That was also mediated by the meaning they got out of it. What is interesting is that that is where I see the role of the therapist. And for clinician wants to find a path to help people capitalize on these experiences, I think it’s in that phase, after the psychedelic experience especially if you’re talking about a classic psychedelic. Rick did a great job this morning by discussing that mystical experience during M TMA don’t necessarily contribute to the positive effects in their study. But with a classic psychedelic, you’re talking about a different set of effects which often include more profound experiences — more profound mystical experiences that are usually — make it — make the individual unable to do what you saw that veteran doing in the video able to process in the moment difficult memories. That’s usually not possible during a psilocybin experience. I will savor my critical work that it does happen sometimes. Especially in the lower dose session. We would have people who, at various points during their experience want to process and talk about difficult memories or emotions that were coming up as part of their journey. So if and when that happens, we would work with them and do some processing. But as a general, especially during high dose sessions that’s not something people are looking to do until later. We also did another survey of people with depression or anxiety and in this study, we were looking at, again, the same population, but looking at different conditions. So for these folks we found the same effect models. The acute insight mystical experiences contributing to a decrease in depression or anxiety in the natural environment after a psychedelic experience. What I think is interesting and I forgot to have a red box to highlight it. You’ll notice online on the bottom of the triangle is a -.08. In the one of the top is a -.2 H. First of all there’s two points want to make. One is that these correlations are pretty small. So even though these variables seem to be implicated in helping people with these issues, these are by no means the only things that are going on that are helping people. These happen to be the ones that we have measures for. There’s a lot more work that needs to happen. Some of that is going on in other labs. What’s interesting about this data is the insight seem to have a stronger effect on the changes with depression and anxiety that we saw with the changes in alcohol use or substance abuse problems. I think it’s important if you think government is the primitive behavior and ideology and mission of depression and anxiety that the insight, the disruption in that moment at the access of new information may be so profound that it erupts that cycle enough to help contribute to behavior change. And that may be more important than the mystical experience itself.>>>So I’m really excited to present this data because this is data that we’ve just started a week ago collecting. But I pulled some of it so we could talk about it and I’ve highlighted several times one of the problems with our clinical trials in survey research is that we tend to recruit a lot of people who are not of color. And so I started a collaboration with Doctor Williams was at the University of Connecticut. She just transferred to the University of Iowa ÃOttawa. We decided to do — we could is set — in terms of impact on their experience of trauma symptoms, due to racial trauma and discrimination. So it’s a small sample. We are going to collect a sample of 500 people. The first hundred 27 completed this study, almost half reported being from an Asian background and about 20 percent were reported being from a black or Native American or other race. Females were representative by half of the sample and we — our recruitment strategy was different. We are targeting to make sure we have equal representation by women as opposed to our prior studies where we opened them up and let whoever participate participate. We are restricting participation in order to make sure we get a balance of sacs in this study. And you’re probably not surprised by this by now, but basically were seeing the same pattern a decreased trauma symptoms as a result of racial trauma that these people of color are experiencing benefit as a result of naturalistic psychedelic use. So where does this leave us? I think that mystical and psychological insight experiences have the capacity to prevent Ãproduce profound changes. It’s been an honor for me to see that happen in person. I think that these experiences and other types of experiences that people have with psilocybin, as a clinician, it really opens up a ripe territory for helping people with the skills that you have as a clinician, to help them build a different type of life for themselves. I can’t emphasize that enough. There is absolutely skills that are crucial to making sure that these types of experiences achieve the answer people are looking for. I also think that these findings start to point to a trans diagnostic mechanism of change. Our current pattern of thinking of mental illnesses through a lot of boxes and cut off sand that’s been helpful for the advancement of understanding these different conditions and the people have them. One thing that it doesn’t do well is help us understand what the common ideologies are and why do so many conditions of until only share common ideologies? I think the results that we are showing are starting to point to the fact that these experiences might be helpful for people who have any form of mental health issue. Does that mean all forms? I don’t know. But we are starting to expand our look into different populations because of this trans diagnostic hypothesis. You may have heard we are going to look at people who are diagnosed with Alzheimer, people who have gone through chemo for Lyme disease, PTSD, and how occurring conditions. Will have several trials looking at people who have come occurring use in order to explore this more deeply. One thing that comes up in every study is that these experiences are rated as one of the top five or single most spiritually significant insightful experience of people’s life. That’s up there with things like birth of a child, death of a loved one. These are deeply felt meaningful experiences that can stay with people for a long time. Interestingly enough, that holds true for people who do not have a positive clinical response. I met with a volunteer for a six month follow-up. This person did not have an antidepressant response with the therapy. Despite all of our best efforts and intentions. And has since gone back antidepressant sender depression has remitted after going back on the antidepressants. But curiously, this person still credits the psilocybin experience in the therapeutic container that was provided with that experience as transformational in their life. They are working on changing things in their life that they never considered changing before including things as their occupation, things in their relationships, prioritizing connection so even though this person did not have the response that we were looking for, they are having a profound change in the way they engage with their life in community and I think that that speaks to the importance of not just thinking about what are the clinical benefits of these substances, but how are they going to bring about a capacity to change the way we connect with people? The way we connect with our families and selves. That may have a clinical benefit and it may not matter if it has a clinical benefit. That may have a societal benefit. Some of the things that I want to highlight are some of the other things, the interesting things we want to look at. I know Chris and other folks are interested in things like emotional birth — breakthroughs and so I’m curious to start looking at how do all of these factors go together to produce change?>>>And we are also working on a new study or we have translated all of our measures into Spanish and we are getting ready to launch a study to validate the psychometric properties of psychedelic measures into Spanish-speaking population so we can increase our ability to conduct trials with individuals who are not primary English speakers.>>>If I could, for a quick moment — to have time? I wanted to a quick little plug for something else I’m involved in which I hope is of interest. I started a nonprofit research foundation — I started it while I was a postdoc here at the University of Michigan because at the time I wasn’t sure how my path was going to unfold or whether it would unfold. And so I also thought that it might be helpful if we could find a way to support students in pursuing psychedelic research as part of their graduate training or even postgraduate training if there a resident or postdoc fellow. In the last two years we’ve been able to support nine students across a variety of academic disciplines or conducting psychedelic research studies in their programs. And the types of studies that were getting applications for span things like anthropology, both cultural and medical to psychiatry and medicine, oncology. If individuals from English departments and music departments and Latin studies who are also bringing these research into deeply meaningful areas of study. And I can’t — I can’t encourage enough people in this room or if you know people interested in conducting something outside a clinical trial, who want to study the impact of psychedelics, to apply. We are also hoping to — with more funding and donations over time, we are hoping to expand this into a community grants program we can help people to take something interesting to them about psychedelic science and breach their community. I feel strongly that in order for this path to come to a place where these medicines are available to people, we have to figure out a way to also connect community to this process. Communities of people that are not having a psychosis need to learn and talk about and support people when they do have these experiences. Indigenously, the that was critical to the fact that they were so powerfully used as medicine. So we are going to — I think the foundation might be able to help the process along. Thank you for having me (applause) (applause). Thank you so much Doctor Davis. In regard to the last comment that you made, I’m wondering if you’re in your study or if you have plans of any sort of follow-up work, either support groups or other sorts of ways that people you’re out or add to these variants the easy answer is yes because that’s because I keep a running list of 100 different things I want to do my mind at a given time. (laughing) For long time I wanted to connect with people who are already doing that work. There a lot of cities and places around the country and part of the US that would start integration circles, community gatherings for people who have had these experiences and want to come together and support each other to those experiences. One thing I’d like to investigate is what type of things the groups are doing well with helping and is there a way we could standardize our understanding in order to disseminate those types of trainings for people who might be a key stakeholder whether a therapist or other peer support individual. I don’t have plans at this moment to do that. If anyone else likes that idea and would like to pursue it is going to be needed. Hopefully, someone will do it. Thanks for a great talk. I have a question regarding the conceptual certification regarding insight versus mystical experiences and the meeting after the experience. And can we may be — there’s a sense in the mystical experience, it speaks very much about the ideas inside a meeting making at the same time. Would you say that it would be more accurate to think about is biographical sort of meeting making versus non-biographical? That would maybe have some sort of dissociative components?>>>That’s a great question. I think some of the other challenges that we have is that frequently our measure of mystical experience and other experience is highly correlated. In some of the projects is highly associated. What is that mean? I don’t think it’s an overlap. I don’t think the type of one insight one gets as part of a mystical experience, I think there’s much more nuance in terms of the onset and fluctuation. And there might be times when the onset of the fluctuation, occur in the journey. No I think we need to do a lot more research to understand what the effect of that is. Something that you’re doing with the micro phenomenology — let’s get a better event of when it occurred is supposed to remember were just asking people across our whole section did you have these experiences. I don’t know if that answers your question, but you know, more work to be done (laughing). Thanks. It was wonderful. As a clinician who is doing work on a regular basis, I’ve done the integration and made life changes. The unfortunate part is that that’s what Western medicine does not value getting all therapy sessions meeting with the therapist in between and doing that is expensive, especially when a lot of it is not covered by insurance. So the great minds at Hopkins, and this is the same thing. Are there any ideas of how we will make this accessible for people?>>>The unfortunate answer is no, we do not have those answers. I will say that there are people that I know of in this community of research and people in the community who are advocates and also advocates of the clinical process who are building structures right now to help advance future endeavors to get reimbursed for the types of things that are critical to this process. There are efforts underway to build, for example, post licensure accreditation outside of the maps world in order to build connection to ensure that they understand that a higher advocacy level that they understand that this will package is critical to the process. Know whether or not insurance companies are going to be able to buy into that and be willing to do it is another question. I know there are people that are trying to work on this in order to set the stage for an effective dissemination postapproval. It’s through the roof. It’s like music to my ears. A quick question is there a reason why you used the grid him D? I know that the doctor did that in one of his previous cancer studies as well.>>DR. PRELLER: I don’t know what the rationale was for the cancer study. It was a little bit before my time. For our current studies is because we been using it for the prior studies. I can’t say as a scientist and a clinician I tend to like things that are in boxes that can be equally rated and I think the grid part of the grid him D is pleasing to investigators. I don’t know that there’s a justification scientifically for one or the other. I know a lot of studies use the MD (phonetic) as opposed to the grid MD.>>>I work with rats. I’m curious as to see how these upheavals translate into smaller behaviors that support long-term remission, like eating better, sleep hygiene, things like that. I see the connection BD à between the drinking but I see there’s a lot of things that can moderate that, I don’t stay up till two watching TV. How does that support that stuff after they go home two years later?>>DR. PREL>>>People come in and they say things like I notice that I’m turning Netflix on less. I’m not even seeking it out. It’s not that they had a problem with too much TV but they notice that there are smaller changes that are different than what life was like before. We’ve had some people who mentioned that sleep improves kind of on its own. They did not think that they had sleep problems before, but they know they get a better quality of sleep. But I think there are things that are going on that were not even measuring in the trial that might be:Creating this therapeutic outcome. And so yes.>>>Just on a personal note, I’d like to thank you from the bottom of my heart for sharing this information. I directed wait — quite a few people toward John Hopkins and it’s valuable having a legitimate scientific face so think you very much. On a more personal note, do you have any advice for someone to integrate all the insight you can achieve during a session? Because there is no lack of insight in my experience, but I feel like a grizzly bear fishing in the river. All the seminar coming by things I could do differently. You can only grab a few and the rest are gone by the time you wake up in the morning.>>DR. DAVIS: Thank you for the visualization. (laughing) That absolutely is something I see time and time again with people who have these experiences is that frequently there’s so much good rich therapeutic information that is overwhelming to try to make sense of it all. We stick to a model that incorporates writing and if they feel like expressing themselves another way like through art or music — we had someone who painted. We encourage them to paint while they reflected on their experience. Whatever people can do to bridge the meaning making party your brain, the part is thinking about the experience to apart that’s expressing something about the experience. That’s our standard frame which seems to have been helpful. I don’t know whether that’s empirically true I just anecdotally it seemed helpful to try to connect different activities in that process that might help make it a more rich understanding. We also people for long-term follow-up to say I was getting ready for this appointment and I read my session report — which we have them write up the night of their session and I forgot about this thing that was so meaningful. Slipped away. That seems to be a hallmark that there’s so much information he can’t stay active and present. And so, we encourage people to read old writings the end reconnect with their experiences so that they can bring them forward.>>>Thank you.>>>Regarding long-term follow-up, more than half the people who have the first episode of depression will have another one, I’m curious with how long you plan to follow them and what you’re seeing long-term.>>>So for the trial you’re following them at 12 months at three, six and 12 months. His only a year out. However, I don’t have enough information to say 12 months said, but at the three, six, time points, I would say that there were certainly some relapse into mild depression for sure. There are still — I know this is a very scientific, but there’s a meaningful portion of people who are remitted from depression which is a great long-term effect. But I think it’s not a magic bullet. This is not going to solve depression for every person or for one person’s entire life. I don’t think. That’s my best clinical judgment. It might be that people — we are people that come in and say I wish I could have another session. I wish — there’s something I feel like us left for me to work through. And so hopefully in clinical practice, like with any other treatment, there can be start and stop and if they need to revisit again, either because symptoms have come up for a new problem has come up that they would be able to access the medicine again. I have one more question in relation to expiration. I apologize if it’s been addressed. But I wanted to ask here. Have you seen any kind of relationship between clinical outcomes or degree and level of education because it seems in the integration process, it seems that the ability to integrate the experiences that be able to give names and concepts to the experiences as to be able to integrate them and make sense of them for the rest of one’s life may somewhat depend on a person’s vocabulary?>>DR. DAVIS: One of the challenges with answering the question is that we tend to recruit pretty highly educated individuals which makes sense given the time commitment. All the hours are having to come into the clinic, the flexibility that one has to have to afford that kind of time and space in their life, we obviously aren’t paying for things like childcare or things that might get in the way. So that means that we have highly educated people.>>>It’s possible that that could contribute to their ability to work with a system going forward in their lives. That said, there’s also a lot of other ways in which education is measured. If we look to other cultures, there’s a lot of varieties of ways that people engage in meaningful roles in their communities that don’t mean the Western standard of maybe high-level education. And yet we still see positive effect. People are using mass. I don’t know what the answer is but I do think that the lower — the education, the socioeconomic status, the more challenges that brings in terms of being able to afford an access and work with long-term things that need to be worked with to make the most other treatments. Really need to consider that to make changes in the future to how we deliver the treatment in order to help people without access area quick so it looks like we have five people at the mic. If they could be very focused, that would be great.>>>Thanks again for sharing your work on an important topic. Some people have asked questions about insight I was wondering more specifically, for the purposes of your study, how you define insight and what specific questions you ask the participants to assess the.>>DR. DAVIS: I should mention that we are refining the measurement testing its properties as like a psychometric really valid incident. How we designed it was to assess for several different domains of insight. What we meant by insight was an acute realization or a new discovery or an awareness about something that you previously did not know or understand or were aware of. And so are questions of use that as a model to elicit responses. So questions with something like I discovered — I discovered emotional — and ability to connect to an emotional experience that I previously avoided. Or I have an awareness of a path in my profession that I previously was not aware of. Things like that to tap into. A discrete piece of information that someone might get during an experience. I’m wondering if you could say more about the rationale for different psychotherapy modalities specifically with psilocybin. I’m interested in (indiscernible) — >>DR. DAVIS: I’m going to try to not be biased by my own psychotherapeutic frame and that response (laughing). I was trained in a certain way by my supervisors. And so I think about clinical things from a specific lens. I have a lot of friends who think to virtually about this project we had heated discussions whether psychodynamic processes the best use of this therapeutic space or whether behavioral therapy. I think both the end. A lot of the research that looks into the efficacy of psychotherapies, largely concludes that it does not matter what the psychotherapy is. What matters is that there is an alignment between the person receiving the therapy in providing the therapy. And the degree to which that is strong is more likely to produce a positive outcome. So I do not know what the truth is. I know there are supporters that say a psychodynamic process should be a part of every psychodynamic therapy session. I don’t know if that’s true. I may behavioral and cognitive therapist. I see that work, too. I think it is both and. And more. There’s probably more.>>>I was wondering how do psychedelics affect people with traumatic brain injuries?>>DR. DAVIS: That’s a great question. I do not know the answer yet. I’m collaborating on a study where we are working with people, military veterans, who go abroad who have psychedelic experience in part because they have traumatic brain injury and trauma, of course, contributed to the traumatic brain injury. There seems to be some initial evidence that supports kind of anti-inflammatory prostheses that psychedelics confer. It might be that some of the processes that recovery could be helpful for people who have traumatic brain injuries. I think there’s a lot more science that needs to be done. But there does seem to be some possibility there thank you. This is a follow-up to the comment about psychedelic integration work. I want to make the comet — I would to thank everybody for their presentations because it’s been incredible, but most of us are here, living in this community. I want to make it clear that there is work being done. There’s plenty of integration circles that are happening. And people doing work here. And I think it’s important for people to note, to be aware of and look out for those things happening in this community here. Thank you. (applause).>>DR. DAVIS: I would add for those of you who are not in the community, if you’re from somewhere else or you have friends that are interested, there are people who are helping to build these communities in other places and things who operate from a clinical approach or a Pierce approach support approach. Share the information. So they know they can build these in their own communities. We I would just like to ask — I guess in summary, what makes a psychedelic drug therapeutic? We just heard from presenters that we are in the infancy of discovering pharmacologically what makes a psychedelic substance gives it an experience. And so when I look at Mushrooms as opposed to other psychedelics or psilocybin’s I see it has less structure than a lot of the other drugs like I washed the or even MDA MDMA when used in therapeutics. I’m wondering when you look at all of these drugs that may have these effects, what you look for when you say this I would like to treat MDD with the sword like to treat PTSD with this? What makes a drug compelling pharmacologically more experimentally?>>>Well I’ll give you the answer that my mentor Roland gives me when asking the question why they chose psilocybin. And his honest answer is that it was unpronounceable to most of the public and the media.>>>(laughing).>>DR. DAVIS: Most people did not know what psilocybin was as opposed to LSD I did not have the same cultural implications as ecstasy. I think he made a calculated move to pursue a deep regulatory hurdle,too pursue this research by using a substance that was going to be less recognizable for people who might get in the way of it. I think it was learned. My guess is that that’s in part why he chose MDMA. There were certain MDMA. Working with combat related or other types of first responders. Capitalizing on connection and things about a community that you could overcome the barriers. Our depression trial took two years of conversations and with the FDA just to started there were a lot of hurdles. And so, until we move further in our cultural change I think decisions were made because of that thank you very much. (applause) Great talk. The symposium is neuroscience in therapy. So we have a scheduled break right now. If you could maybe take 5 to 10 minutes to stretch and chat a bit and then we are going into the last group of talks. We are going to hear from two of our graduate students. You’re going to hear interesting work on DMT and then also, we have our wonderful colleagues from social work or going to talk to us about what they are doing. So, have a quick break and I’ll see you back here in 10 minutes or so. (applause) If I could ask you to come in or settle down were going to get asked Ãstarted with our last lecture session in just a few minutes. All right. Maybe we can get started.>>>We are good.>>>All right, everyone. This is going to be our last lecture session with the grad students and is my great pleasure to introduce our next two speakers John Dean and neck cleanouts. John works in our group that is going to be talking about the data and the incredible study of — performed he is a graduate students in the Department of physiology and similarly, Nick Glynos is a PhD student also working under Gino. And you’re going to hear about DMT. So welcome. (applause). >>>Thanks, George. Much appreciated Ãappreciated for the day. I’ll take this time to thank Doctor Scotsman and everybody on the study. Hopefully you got a chance to see is interesting talk on psychedelic. So anyhow, I’m going to get into a topic that we have not covered yet today. So, Chris’s data he was showing you was on the idea of exogenous administration of GMT. It’s a psychedelic that’s found in plants. But interestingly, in the topic of this manuscript was that is found in mammals as well, including humans. They’re trying to figure out exactly why that is. I’m going to jump into it. So when I was an undergrad in chemistry, that’s what I was studying, this is the thing that got me interested in this topic initially. When I saw the striking chemical similarity in the background between serotonin or five hydroxy crypto mean and DMT, on one hand, as Rick’s talk was suggesting, serotonin isn’t psychedelic per se. MDA will increase the amount of serotonin, but unlike DMT, it’s not necessarily psychedelic where DMT is a powerful psychedelic. So we know a lot of things about serotonin. Serotonin is a neurotransmitter it’s produced in mammals and also in the gut whereas with DMT, we don’t know where it’s produced or if it’s produced. It’s been identified in trace amounts in tissues including in the brain, the blood in urine and through the spinal fluid. And if you look at serotonin, where as DMT, scientifically speaking, we have no currently defined — (indiscernible) –. Ideology, depression, memory, circadian rhythms, whereas DMT we are not sure. There are some more mundane properties of the exhaustion is administration of DMT. These include antidepressant, and toxicity promoting actions. So I want to walk through the endogenous DMT synthetic pathway. So it’s known that the amino acid — dietary amino acid is converted to trip to Maine — (indiscernible) — this is an enzyme in the brain and is involved in the serotonin pathway. So the other enzyme or IME tea, is the enzyme that converts trip to Maine to DMT via certain reactions. So this has been demonstrated many time. This research started in the early 60’s and 70’s where it was shown that trip to Maine, you could take trip to Maine and put it into tissues, radio label it and you would get a trip to Maine product. And then the M sign was eventually cloned so the gene was cloned and then the enzymes purified and this is a biochemical way of saying that this is an enzyme that can do this. We know it’s this enzyme and not several other enzymes. So the same authors began to ask the question where in the body is it distributed? Where is it expressed? So the gene they did a study in several human tissues and they found high expression of the mRNA in the heart, lung and adrenal gland. So this is northern blot analysis. So the interpretation of this — this is a rather crude technique but nonetheless it establishes these intensity of the band correlates with the intensity of the expression of the gene more or less. So in a more recent study, they used a more sensitive technique and apply the antibody against the protein. So the protein that will make DMT. They identified expression of this — (indiscernible) — so showing IMT in the green is present. So these were intriguing to our group 2013 Gmail shown and Stevie ÃSteve Barker that there’s DMT in the living lands. We have a technique and I’ll explain more. This leads us to our knowledge gap and one of the questions is is DMT in the body? One can make the argument that these trace amounts are a serotonin biosynthesis metabolite. The second question is do these trace levels that have been identified, do they reach continent pertinent concentration. What we wanted to do was investigate the gene expression of AA D.C.. We wanted to do this with a newer technique which I’ll outline. We did this in rat and human brain tissue. Rather than look for one of the genes necessary, we looked for both of the genes that are required with the logic that this will increase the likelihood that if we can identify these genes that (indiscernible) And then the other one was to quantify the cellular concentration in living rat brain. The first thing we set out with this technique (indiscernible) — so just a quick refresher, the dogma, the central dogma of biology DNA from the nucleus RNA transcription and translation into protein. We are looking at the mRNA. And we did with this technique that allows us to rather than grind up whole homogenized tissue sections, we could section individual brain areas or individual micron thin slices of a particular area in the brain or the periphery and then we can apply these sensitive probes into a series of amplification steps and get this product that is based on this EMT an hour and a probe against the exact known base pair alignment for INT and (indiscernible) Then we get the pink and green dots. So these are the data. This is the first set of experiments that we did where we identified IMT in both the rat and human brain. So here on the left side is rat and we found — you can see the black arrows there are positive. The pain, you can take the overall intensity of the stain this can be quantitative or the amount of gene expression and this is the rat visual cortex. And that we also looked in the human cortex. As you can see the pineal gland and the rat was extremely had extremely high expression and then also in the human. We identified in the plexus this is an area of cerebral spinal fluid where DMT has been found in humans. So then we moved on in the rat tissue for both genes. We saw very high expression of both of those genes and brain cells here in the cortex and so the black arrows are denoting in the little blown up images here there’s a brain cell that is double positive. And then the same goes for the (indiscernible) And then also the pineal gland in the polar plexus all for these tissue suggesting this colorization makes DMT said the station a reasonable possibility. So then we look at the tissues in the periphery and these are the same tissues from the study we wanted to run. We found nonoverlapping expression. These are individual cells. And then area a is going to be cortex and area B is going to be Dula. The only area where we saw an overlap of the genes was a slight — in the adrenal my Dula suggesting — where is indicating we saw in verse pattern sustaining in the cortex versus the my Dula for — on one hand ADC. And then just like in the study we found high expression of IMT in the lung and heart. However, as you can see there’s no ADC expression. So then, based on our finding of high expression of both biosynthetic genes the individual cortex in the pineal gland, we looked at the concentration therein with the probe in rat brain appear on the right hand corner. This probe, in a prior study, it was — in that study in 2013, they were able to identify DMT. But with this study, as you can see where the probe is, it’s unclear whether it was of vent biosynthesis or if it could be — DMT — contributions can be from the surrounding tissue. This study, we repeated this but we removed the pineal gland to test for the (indiscernible) I’ll be brief with this HPLC method. It’s a chemistry technique so, the animals are hooked up to continuous perfusion of artificial spinal fluid which then will pump actually the brain into a column and then the compounds will stick based on their polarity and you can identify interest by passing a standard amount of a known amount in our case DMT and serotonin. And then we also did this study pre-and post cardiac arrest based on 2015 publication at the lab showing that a select increase transmission in the dying brain was found and so the translators and also serotonin. So you can see a high increase of sound in significant increase. So we reasoned that if DMT is regulated, that we would anticipate seeing an increase for something to that effect. These are the data. So this is a chromatogram. That means that this is one screenshot of one animal for this microdialysis technique. So on the right here is the cardiac arrest trait in the blue is the baseline. This timeframe is not an experimental timeframe. So, the way we did this was we sampled a 15 to 30 minutes and so we took three stable averages or we averaged three stable time points and then up to one hour within cardiac arrest we looked at the highest DMT point. As you can see we had an increase quantified in DMT from baseline to cardiac arrest. So that we repeated this study with the animals and even without the pineal gland we still saw a baseline trait and then when the cardiac arrest was induced, we saw significant increase in DMT in the dying brain. So, this very last slide is sort of, in my opinion, one of the more striking findings. So we went in and quantified the extracellular concentrations of DMT relative to serotonin. On the far left, we are looking at the baseline conditions and you can see that whether or not the pineal gland was intact, there was still a DMT baseline. And it was altered when we read some statistical analysis on it. Cardiac arrest something similar. We saw a significant increase in DMT. There was no difference with or without pineal gland. And then the last piece of data here is in my opinion was interesting is to compare the baseline levels of DMT in the animals to serotonin. What we found was although serotonin was higher, about double, two full higher, the DMT was present in the range of serotonin. And also for other known transmitters including — and dopamine. This is the baseline. And then, these are actually from the different group of studies on ours, it’s showing you that both are serotonin concentration and our DMT compensation Ãconcentration is in the range. So, one thing that you can look at the we speculated upon this in the paper discussion, is that why would removing the pineal land have a concentration of these — not alter. So we explained that a little bit in there. It’s one possibility is the biosynthetic pathway favors — in the pineal gland rather than DMT said this is in the enzymatic kinetic data supports that. Or I mean, this is right on the edge. It was a key value.05. Well pineal DMT increased — DMT actually increased in the area where the probe was when the pineal was removed almost double fold. It could be some sort of compensatory method when you remove the pineal gland like that. So in summary, we answered some of these questions a little bit. We shed some light on them. Is it bio synthesized aware. I — in the rat brain rather than in the periphery suggests that these areas are very likely in biosynthesis. In the we also found IMT RNA in the human brain suggesting it could be a possibility that it’s in humans as well. And then the quantitative data, levels reached concentration. We did, in fact find them in the range of the neurotransmitters and they increased up to 11 fold following cardiac arrest. And then DMT was detectable following removal of the pineal gland and there’s another way to conclude other than that the pineal gland is — at the least not necessary for DMT. So with that I would just like to — all think George again and then Gmail for just being an amazing mentor in hearing — giving me the opportunity to work on this project. My dissertation committee and all the graduate students today that helped organize everything especially administrative staff. There were couple of the people that were involved in the. So Nick is going to come up and take you to the next step of what is going to be going on with this type of research. And then we will come up and answer any questions that you have. Thank you for your time. (applause) >>NICK GLYNOS: Great. So hey everybody. My name is Nick Glynos. I’ve been working in the lab was the doctors. I like to give a big thanks to John for giving the presentation and also for completing the study and basically carving the path for the work that I’m doing in the work that I propose to do in the next several years so, I’m in my second year so I’m developing my thesis. I’m in my second year as my PhD I’m developing my thesis. I want to give a little bit of a historical overview and talk about the direction we plan to go with this. The title of my talk is what we know where we going. I’ll start with what we know and that has been covered multiple times today. We have shown great detail and talked about some of the psychedelic effects of DMT. We know it produces strong phenomena as well as proponent — profound effects. We know that is naturally produced by mammals. It’s been shown in humans rats and rabbits in several different tissues and fluids using a variety of different techniques. And it’s been documented for several decades that is endogenously produced by mammals. In addition to that, we know quite a bit about the biosynthetic pathway and obviously John went over this but I can cover it quickly. We know that the synthesis DMT starts with the amino acid tryptophan which we obtained from multiple different food sources. Tryptophan is deep carboxylated to produce trip to Maine and tripped mean undergoes a double methylation step and one of the interesting things — the one thing I find interesting is the similarity between the structure of DMT and serotonin. In addition to structural similarities, there is a similarity in the biosynthetic pathway. Serotonin is synthesized from tryptophan and it shares the enzyme ADC which is necessary for the synthesis. The key — it highlights the significance of John’s work that he presented. In addition to the similarity of the biosynthetic pathway, the metabolism of these compounds are similar and there metabolized by — one of the challenges is because it’s really rapidly metabolized by the enzyme in mammals. That’s been a challenge to get accurate detections of the levels of DMT in there. So now just to go over a brief history of DMT and how we came to learn about it and where we are today, in Western science we’ve known about DMT for several years. It was first discovered in synthesized in 1931 by the British chemist Richard Inskeep. This was a wave of chemical exploration and he synthesized the compound and didn’t explore anything about its properties. And set it aside and didn’t give it any more attention. It wasn’t until about 25 years later when the Hungarian asked ÃHungarian chemist found that it had hallucinogenic properties and he found this by administering to himself and then going on to be the first person to administer DMT to human subjects. And then as I mentioned DMT was found to be endogenous and other humans Ãhumans and animals. And this was a lesson Ãa finding after DMT was a hallucinogenic. The idea that humans and animals have hallucinogenic compounds in their body sparks a lot of different ideas of what this compound could be doing and what its role may be in some of those ideas were that endogenous DMT or other endogenous hallucinogenic’s may have some links to disease like schizophrenia or dementia or the types of psychotic disorders. But despite the fact that we’ve known about endogenous DMT for 60 years, the physiological functions and the way it’s regulated still exist largely in a black box we had little information, scientific evidence for what its function is. This black box, this knowledge gap, is what is informing my research aims for what I’m working on what I will be doing. And I’ll talk about to for today but all focus on aim one. That is to take John’s work to the next step and determine if DMT exists as a neuro transmitter in the brain. So what I’ll do is review the figure that John showed. It’s so important to the work were doing. Again, he showed that the two enzymes necessary, are in multiple regions of the rat brain. This strongly supports the notion that DMT good deeds synthesizing these brain areas. We’ve gone on in the lab to show that in addition to the brain areas that John talked about, we saw a high colocalization of these enzyme. The hypothalamus, the visual cortex and to a lesser degree the cerebellum. There is a rally Ãrelatively high — more so than any areas that we see which is interesting. So again, this supports the notion that DMT is potentially being synthesized in these regions of the rat brain. In addition to that John talked about the important finding that cortical DMT levels are comparable to the levels of other known neurotransmitters in the rat brain as lead — at least. This table is a compilation of several different studies measuring the concentrations of the three neurotransmitters serotonin dopamine and Nora for Efrain. When look at the confirmation, we look and see the concentration falls well within the range of the other three transmitters suggesting that DMT in the brain may be contributing to cognitive function in some way. So these two facts, the fact that the enzymes necessary for photosynthesis are present in the cell and that its president Ãpresent in the brain forms one awry hypotheses and that is that DMT exists as a functional neuro transmitter. And if were going to call DMT a neurotransmitter, it’s important that we define what we mean we can use this cartoon diagram of a neuron to look at some of the four — or four important properties of compounds for them to be called a neurotransmitter. As I mentioned, tryptophan enters the cell and it undergoes a two-step process to produce serotonin. That satisfies the first criteria. They are specialized neurons. These two neurons:Localized in the same cell. And once the serotonin is produced, it stored in package with a specific transporter email it to Annette satisfies the second criteria that is there a particular storage message Ãmethod in place. Once it stored in activity can call those vesicles to exocytosis and release them into extracellular space to satisfy the third criteria. And finally, the fourth and final criteria is that there is a plasma membrane transporter and this is a mechanism to recycle the serotonin that has been released and to regulate the response of serotonin. So the obvious question is it does DMT qualify as a neurotransmitter. And quickly we can show yes, there are special neurons as shown by the research that John just presented and it looks like big — based on the cardiac arrest studies there may be some release as we saw a highly significant increase from baseline to cardiac arrest in rats. It suggested there may be a physiological mechanism causing DMT to be increased. The two questions that are left is there a particular storage message in place and are there — and work by Kozy and others, have provided some potential transporters and mechanisms for this process and we are currently investigating some of those as well as others. Some of the ongoing and future studies in regard to this transmitter hypothesis are to first carry out pharmacological transport to seek out potential transporters for endogenous — we want to seek out transporters that have a high enough infinities and presence in the brain to transport DMT. In addition to that we plan to carry out chemistry studies to use some of these molecular techniques to probe for the location of these transporters and rotted brain. And that brings me to aim to. We are working on. And that is to search for functional roles. And as mentioned before, the role of endogenous DMT is series despite the fact that we’ve known its presence for over 60 years. A lot of different hypotheses have been disclosed such as DMT may be playing a role in the phenomenon of dreaming or the hallucinatory experience will may fall asleep and dream. Because DMT is a hallucinogenic. It has some effect on that experience. Additionally as shown by Chris and others and a few others in the past, there is a potential correlation with DMT and the near-death experience. Essentially and in doggedness à endogenous experience. Others have proposed that DMT endogenous DMT may be playing a role in certain types of creative or imaginative states potentially — some mechanism of DMT modulation may be producing these states in individuals. Others have drawn — or shown correlations between exogenous DMT and spiritual experiences and people have proposed medical techniques are certain introspective work may be linked in some way to a potential endogenous DMT pathway. There’s also the link to psychiatric Ãpsychiatric disorders. Schizophrenia has been documented and explored. The fact is that despite all these theories, we have little, if any, scientific evidence to support or refute any of them. We are at a point where we know almost nothing. And there are many different studies and many projects that take on. In order to test these hypotheses, we have developed in a lab and INT deficient rat model to study the functions. This is a common technique in different physiological — when different questions come up, is to — if you want to know the function of a certain compound or a certain protein, you cannot that protein out and find out what happens when it’s gone. So with this model we have used technology to basically delete the enzyme which effectively should eliminate any possibility of DMT production in these rats. We plan to use this for a variety of different studies. I can show confirmation of the absence of protein. Here on the left, we are looking at the genetic coding sequence of the gene we have a knockout animal in red on top and white on the bottom. If you look at this yellow box, there’s two amino acid deletion causing a frameshift mutation in translation of the gene and basically destroying — destroying the function of the IMT protein. We can show that with our Western blot which is a method to target protein in animals and you can see that the presence of the green bands indicates the presence of IMT. The green band is a knockout animal indicating that indeed, IMT is nonfunctional or not present in the sample. We’ve got a variety of ongoing studies that we are carrying out with this animal. And a lot of them revolve around the techniques — is a technique to probe in a certain tissue of animal and measure the neurotransmitter or metabolite or chemical profile of the tissues. You can do this with animals. The first outcome that we hope to find is to provide confirmation that I am T is necessary enzyme. The biosynthetic pathway has been accepted for several decades but this is the first generation of this animal and it will provide confirmation that is necessary.>>>Additionally, we plan to compare the levels of other neurotransmitters during different behavioral paradigms. And this may provide insight into compensatory mechanisms like up or down regulation of different pathways or neurotransmitters in the knockout animal. And also, we plan to do long-term rhythms of DMT production. That would be taking John study and doing it for a longer period of time to see if there’s any pattern of DMT production. In addition to microdialysis were doing some electro encephalopathy studies. It’s been introduced previously. It’s just a measure — it’s a way to measure the activity in a brain of a freely behaving animal. For these techniques we plan to compare the sleep wake cycles of rats to determine if DMT is playing a role in modulating regulating the sleep cycle. In addition to that, we plan to probe into some of those different stages of the sleep and wake cycle and seek out types of the knockout react. And finally we plan to repeat the cardiac arrest study with this animal that is DMT deficient with the IMT knockout animal. With that I can summarize, we know that DMT is an endogenous compound. What we don’t know — we don’t know very much about the way it’s regulated or its function. So apparently were using molecular tools and genetic knockouts to better understand its role. And with that, I want to give a big thanks to Gmail and Michael, my two mentors as well as the mentors that help me with the project and also to George for organize this event and making it happened and all of the other graduate students that help with the event today. Thank you for your attention. (applause). >>>Thank you both for those great talks and that really excited work. While people are coming to the microphone, I would like to ask what is known about the enzyme just independently of DMT? Does it have any known function?>>>There’s not really a single defined function. It’s known to methylated other means in Dodge and asleep. But a specific function has been determined.>>>While I’m abusing my role as moderator, another question. Have you looked at career formats at all or is it just?>>>Personally, to build on the question, still not is involved in selenium metabolism histamine, I mean transferring a methyl group is a common biological function. So yeah. That’s one thing that we even hypothesize upon in the periphery of the fact that is not with ABC may be minutes performance some of those types of functions instead of the antithesis in the periphery. And another thing I would point out is that trip to Maine is obviously a permeable cell membrane. And depending on the — but it’s overexpressed. So yeah. Give trip to mean or to be in the peripheral tissue, it makes it less likely since ADC is in their. We have a question appear? I’ve actually had this question pretty much the whole thing, but yours seems the most relevant. And I know that there’s a lot we don’t know so you may not have the answer. That’s fine, too. But this is just your opinion then. Do you believe the consumption of DMT whether it’s smoked, ingested or injected has any effect on the management of — if there’s no research, is there something comparable what happened when dopamine or serotonin? Does it react to the certain way when it’s introduced into the body? A naturally occurring when?>>>You’re asking if the ingestion of DMT can alter the natural production of other transmitters? I — I can’t tell you whether or not.>>>Does anything like that happen with serotonin or dopamine or other neurotransmitters.>>>With the ingestion of DMT. If you introduce serotonin or dopamine into your body, does it affect your natural production of those neurotransmitters?>>>I can’t say.>>>So serotonin will cross the blood brain barrier so if you did another method — I mean the DMT question is a fascinating one. It’s in the same context we did the study, and the measure to see if the endogenous production changes that’s actually a thought that Steve has is that there may be some sort of endogenous DMT system that responds to the ingestion of any psychoactive or psychedelic substance that it may be mediating some of the effects of those compounds. Thank you. (indiscernible) Speak loudly into it. Thank you.>>Question:: It may have got lost my notes but I wanted to ask did you search for this inhuman brain or just rats?>>NICK GLYNOS: John can talk about that.>>Question: Okay. So then could you guys just reiterate what we do know about the presence of DMT in the human brain? And then I’m also curious if you could speculate on why is there a higher amount in the pineal gland of the rats and muggy?>>NICK GLYNOS: Higher amounts of DMT or IME tape.>>Question: For the staining of the IME T, there was higher expression in the Camille land and I believe you said it was also the same in monkeys where they also showed higher IMT as opposed to other brain regions. I’m just curious if you could speculate on why we might be seeing more IME T in the pineal gland. Let me think. It is true that the expression — it’s interesting. In the brain, you know, again, we are doing these micron slices. And you’re probing like entire brain areas. So in the pineal, it’s condensed. But it is true that is very highly expressed. I would you those studies and literally as soon as I put the last incubation step on it turned bright pink in front of my eyes which is uncommon for that technique. In terms of — so you’re asking why, if — so if it’s — back to the question of why are you removing the Ãit did impact the presence of DMT despite the fact that there’s a high amount of I am ET? He.>>Question: If you could speculate I want the pineal gland would have more we functionally or — >>Question: In relative to the other brain region.>>>Not — one of those other DMT said this is independent functions. Magaziner biotic function. So could be something like that.>>>Thank you. How much we know about the role of endogenous DMT and binding to the Sigma one receptor and its role in keeping cells alive and is your research going to be investigating this front?>>>I think that will be an area of investigation force. What we know about is that it binds to the receptor and I think the receptors currently thought to be an organ receptor. There’s not a known endogenous for that receptor. But I think this study by Prescott and others in Hungary and in Europe are showing that DMT binds the motor receptor. Relatively low. You need a high concentration to activate these receptors. It’s higher than what we’ve seen in our studies. So we can’t really speak to whether or not DMT is having an endogenous effect with respect to the receptor but I think it’s definitely an area of future research and just like you said, there’s been some pretty promising results showing that as a protective effect of hypoxia using DMT receptors.>>>I will add to that the caveat that it is extracellular in terms of the concentrations that we are finding. There are studies to suggest that the synapses is present in more concentration. So it’s hard to say. The near-death experiences Everybody’s talked about so fa , both of you brought up, the study was on cardiac arrest on the levels of DMT. Is there a correlation between the two? Was there a study done between both of those, near-death experience and cardiac arrest?>>>It’s a rough correlation. A lot of people that have had near-death experiences or cardiac survivors. They’ve gone through a similar physiological process as somebody was a cardiac arrest and doesn’t survive. It’s a model for near-death experience and in order to replicate that in an animal model it would be difficult. So we are not claiming that our studies are replicating a near-death experience, we are using it to understand the neurobiology of the diagram box I’ll just add to it I can’t remember of my last comment I said DMT was present. If I did I meant serotonin. I think I said serotonin but just for the record. Duly noted.>>>(laughing). I was wondering what the significance what was standing DMT within rats.>>>I think it was significant. And we have no idea what its function is. It’s got a structure that is similar to other important neurotransmitters and we suspect a compound that’s actively synthesized by mammals and is present in these concentrations would have some sort of a function. It’s very interesting to look at some of the hypotheses related to the dreams were sleeping or near-death experiences or cracked à creativity and that basically excited me to investigate. Am sorry so were going to have to move on to the next question. Thank you, though.>>>I wanted to know if there’s any plans or intentions to look at the various kinds of, you know, psychedelic experiences that don’t involve ingesting an exogenous chemical is to see if you can produce these kind of experiences we can you.>>>Can you cite an example?>>>Well it’s hard — I don’t know. It’s hard for me to speak for — those are interesting studies. But you write.>>>But you rent one, John and we are — I’m sure if someone would have the funding that’s an avenue that would be of interest.>>>I could just add to that and say that because there is so little known, I can think of 20 different studies we could do to expose animals or expose humans to different types of meditation practices or sensory deprivation and we really just don’t know anything about the regulation or the physiological function. It’s really a black box.>>>Did you consider the idea that there was tissue damage in the area of the lung that could release DMT and go to the brain from like an injury or something like an accident deprivation during surgery? Not in the brain but in the organ tissue and it gets perceived as psychedelic?>>>I think that’s been one of the long-standing hypotheses. And it was produced in the long and somehow it was transported into the brain. And that’s — that’s still a potential mechanism for DMT regulation. John showed that we don’t see the two necessary enzymes in the periphery as much as we thought suggesting that DMT is not likely synthesized as abundantly in those tissues. But DMT does cross a broad à blood barrier and there’s a — and that it is getting into the brain or other tissues through circulation.>>>And last question.>>>Comparable to psilocybin how could you say that DMT is like a therapeutic — I don’t know if I’m qualified incident. So we’re doing more basic scientific research. That would be a question for Alec Allen or someone who works in a therapeutic study. I don’t mean to be rude.>>>By all means.>>>All qualify by saying that we don’t have evidence to say that there is but we just finished a large study was approximately 2600 people who have smoked or vaporize DMT and of those 2600 people, almost 80 or more percent of them reported the same types of things that we see that her cycle therapeutically helpful. They said they had mystical experiences and so I think there’s a good chance that there’s something that can be done with DMT at high dose in a therapeutic setting. I’ve also done research and I think were seeing some same patterns that result in that data. I think short acting trip demeans have a place in our psychedelic medicines in the future.>>>Let’s think our graduate students let’s think our graduate students. (applause) As well as their mentor, Gino. (applause) He’s been pushing the envelope and that paper from the summer got a lot of press as well. So, we are moving on now to the student Association for psychedelic studies for colleagues from social work and join us. (applause) This seems like it’s working over there.>>>Thank you everybody for being here. I want to give a quick thank you to Alan for bringing some really important concepts to the Florian for a lot of questions that various individuals have posed. About stigma and just how difficult it is to talk about psychedelics and so, our talk today we will be talking about the language that we use in psychedelic assisted therapy, how we can ease the barrier and also through that, how King à how we can reduce stigma. So, this has been a talk that was put together by the staff that’s her acronym psychedelic assisted — wow. But, student Association for psychedelic studies. These are all the members. I’m a master student in the school of social work here in campus. And so, what we do, our objective is to create a space to talk about psychedelics, the body of research, the therapeutic uses, the related privilege oppression diversity, social justice issues that we see in this field. It is important that we don’t shove those under a rug and that we really hash those out and make sure that our clients are getting the ethical treatment that they deserve. And then also, a big mission for us just to expand objective awareness and to promote fair and accessible access a lot of these people don’t know this exists. And so, a quote that I want to share is to open up the talk today is by — the quote reads people tend to fear what they do not understand and psychedelic substances and mental illness are poorly understood in our society. We are talking about the stigma and how we can help reduce the stigma in the therapeutic setting but also in her day-to-day life. And so, first talking about the limitations that we see that comes from stigmatization. There’s an article that I was reading and a quote popped out at me. It was an Australian article and so the quote read how receptive our Australian publics and afflicted individuals and their families to the possibility of psychedelic assisted therapy. I want to argue that this is a question we could ask in America and other countries. This is a hard topic that individuals can bring back to their families and they may experience like open arms when they experience psychedelic therapy but in a lot of cases there is the stigma that is perpetuated in their inner circles. This is something that is important to keep in mind but we see the stigma that is percent — pervasive such as how our drugs are scheduled. What are the messages sent with that, that they are addictive and they have no medicinal benefits. Then also are medical professionals. You see some stigma — we have clinicals in the day yet we still see hesitancy to engage because of those scheduling systems. Employers are not as supportive of an individual receiving psychedelic therapies like some cognitive issue that they have the more comfortable with an antidepressant or something that supported through an insurance agency. Also organized religions. There are some that are based around psychedelics and others that are not confused but just like intimidated and what they can do to an individual or maybe even the religious establishment and then also, we see very University researchers a reduction in stigma. Today were all here at the University of Michigan where there’s a reduction in stigma. But other universities are more apprehensive to talk about these things due to how they may tarnish reputations or whatnot. And then we see the impact of stigma. What we are talking about here is how the culture impacts an individual’s experience when they’re engaged in psychedelic assisted therapy. What were talking about long-term outcomes mental health wise so I will piece it out for you guys. But it starts with a cultural setting. And within that is likely public opinion, how psychedelics may be presented in the media and this leads into an individual’s expectations. What are they thinking about a psychedelic assisted therapy? How is it formed by the culture? This feeds into their acute experience. And so how does this impact the challenges that they experience? And then, this filters into the long-term outcomes or like their changes in mental health. Are there positive or negative changes. And then this cycles back into the cultural setting. And so I argue that the issue — cool. So the issue really is in the cultural setting which is in the individual expectation. So we can see some problematic implications for the psychedelic experience when the culture is so permeated by negative stigma. And so, this is a model that we use a lot in social work. This is the person and environment model. In social work we like to say were humans that do not exist in a vacuum. There are multiple layers in life that impact us. And so we have the individuals here. We can think of that as our clients and then in the micro setting we have individuals like our family, our friends, work acquaintances. There are various relationships that bind us to them. How supportive are they? How unsupportive are they?>>>And you have the — warded ago. I’m going backwards (laughing).>>>And that we have the XO system which is more like the physical setting that we operate in. So we have education settings, religious settings mental and not — and then the macro setting is more like large scale drug policy scheduling. Big Pharma medical model. Media representation and psychedelics. And so, when we are talking about psychedelics, we are going to look at what is going on in this model. And so currently, we see that the setting in which an individual can have a psychedelic experience may be heavily impacted. There may not be as much support. A be family and friends are confused about what they are. There is stigma in those areas. And so we see that currently. But why do we see this statement? And so, there is stigma found in various domains like in the XO system. In the meso system — the meso system is really like the norms between individual. What is happening, what is the process like?>>>And so we see that there is a reduction in some stigma in education settings and mental health settings. Still some stigma found in others. And so why do we find the stigma throughout? We argue that it is from the macro system. The macro system is permeating each layer of the person and environment model leading up to the individual which is limiting fine autonomy in choosing what they want for a therapeutic intervention. And also limiting their knowledge in general. And so, this is like the best picture possible like for the future of psychedelics and what we are arguing today is that as clinicians, and just individuals that walk through life, we can help engage with individuals to increase empowerment, advocacy and provide psychoeducation for like what is stigmatized and how to best protect yourself as you going through life as an individual who experienced psychotherapy.>>>By doing this we are encouraging the individual to mend the relationships in their microsystem. So advocating for themselves, feeling empowered to talk about their experience and then seeing this revitalization that is emanating outward. And then we will hopefully see that kind of continue into the meso system, changing stigma outside because when an individual empowers another individual or give some the psychoeducation, you see that continue to emerge from them is like this emergent strategy, like a domino effect. And this is argued as well to increase client autonomy and to be able to talk about their experience and choose what they want in their medical treatment. And then hopefully seeing stigma reduced throughout systems into the macro creating that domino effect. I’m not saying that individuals — like one individual can change this hold microsystem. What I’m saying is that through this movement we can create — or we can find till the soil and create more cultural approval for psycho — psychedelic assisted therapy is focuses on the benefits and so on and so forth. And so coming back to this cultural defect, kind of like what we have envisioned is that a physician can serve as a buffer. The culture is no longer informing clients about what is going to happen. The clinician is giving the — the client the language the understanding of what’s going to happen to them in the psychedelic assisted therapy. This will feed back into the culture and start to create that change. All right. And then before introduce all of this — so this was a study that looked at an online form of individuals. And there were these really kind of stringent language rules were there like please don’t use this word. We would rather use this word because they were trying to revitalize this community. And really have respect in it and reduce stigma. And so there are words that I’m going to show that they have said like these are stigmatized. It’s like a shift. It’s an example. And there are words I’m going to put up that are within my working vocabulary. So this is to show that we do see the shift in language to try to reduce the perpetuation of stigma. For shifting this to dream experience or dream. Psychedelic, which — to an infusion or a medicine. From hallucination to vision. Magic mushrooms and truffles, and then add trip, to a challenging experience. And then a study by Watson is in this one. They had this rich qualitative data that showed what individual shared about their psychedelic assisted therapies. Thought this would be a good way to kind of give examples of the language that you can use to feel empowered and to also share your experience in a way that others would understand and you wouldn’t feel so ostracized. What you’re sharing just falls poultry to your living experience. Just trying to empower the client what they have experienced. And also, just a side note, there are handouts on our table outside that goes way more in depth about these. I’ve only shared a few. But we can send you a digital copy if you would like. So we’ve kind of identified three different categories within that study, providing a reference point which breaks down to two more subcategories. Use of analogies and use of relatable things and examples. For example with providing a reference point, there is a deep before and after. A veil drop from my eyes, things were clear glowing and bright. I looked at plants and felt their beauty. I can still look at my orchids that is the one thing that lasted. So really like painting a picture about before the psychedelic assisted therapy and then after. And then further cases of other treatment versus psychedelic assisted therapy. I did not experience any of the debilitating side effects of anti- — weight gain, sexual side effects, severe withdrawal symptoms. And moving on to the use of analogies, it was like the light switch being turned on. This is easier than saying I don’t know. Like trying to expand — explain the visual. It’s more relatable an individual has an experienced psychedelic assisted therapy. And all of the use of examples. I lost my ability to cry during a dosing section I cried. A welcoming experience. Everybody cries. That’s a relatable example. And then, this is the handout that I have up front. So if you are interested in grabbing that feel free to come up and grab it. And I would like to just think the center of consciousness studies to puncture — for partnering with us. It’s what we see in the real world so it makes sense. And you can also contact us at these various handles and we would be happy to answer any questions for you. Thank you. (applause).>>>We have time for a few questions. I’m sorry I did not formally introduce you.>>>Your good.>>>Any questions?>>>So you can forward them along afterwards. Thank you so much. (applause).>>>So we are now at the end of our formal program. I just want to express gratitude again. I always love the crowded the end. Those are the real — the serious ones. Thank you all for staying. Thank you for coming and I know people traveled from different states to attend the symposium, which is wonderful. Again, I want to thank her speakers especially our esteemed invited speakers that are coming from across the country and from Europe as well. Again, I want to thank our staff for all of your wonderful work and the graduate students in the planners, stand up one more time. I just want to acknowledge you (applause) your fantastic work. (applause) So, it’s so cool as part of your grad school experience you can look back that you played a key role in a landmark event here at the University of Michigan. Any closing thoughts or reflections thank you.>>>Please do this again next year.>>>(indiscernible).>>>We will try to figure that out. I think the whole conference is going to be on YouTube. I’m sorry I thought it would work out well with people over there, but unfortunately, we did have some AV problems. But we will figure it out. It was recorded so I don’t see why you can go up on YouTube. Thanks for asking because it was an interesting thesis and I think it’s worthy of serious consideration.>>>(indiscernible) I’d like to thank you for opening it up — (Indiscernible) — >>>I think it’s been great we were just chatting about it before. It’s wonderful for having people from the community. We should encourage a dialogue. And somebody talked about doing this next year. I think I’m going to need a two days before I can ponder that. But what might be of additional interest? You know topics that may be have come up that we might do in a future session? Maybe that’s been on your mind. You’ll have to speak loudly.>>>(indiscernible) Is great. Maybe moving more — and that’s the thing. I’m wondering if maybe we could spin off on a few of the different lines of investigation or action and having more of a workshop or something is really focused on the clinical aspects might be interesting. Any other thoughts?>>>.>>>That’s a great point. It’s about patients or individuals have benefited from this, wonderful.>>>I brought Robin to this very room a few years ago. We’ve had a symposium on altered states of consciousness. That was broader and that we were also the get about states like sleep, near death experience. Robin has been at this very podium several years ago.>>>Yes.>>>(indiscernible).>>>.>>>I think was All right., next you.>>>Yes.>>>(indiscernible).>>>Okay.>>>Okay. Yes. I was thinking about that during the course of the talk. Yes. Back there.>>>(indiscernible).>>>I don’t know, but right now we are focusing on what we are going to do moving forward or other ideas. Would that be something you’d like to see on migrant dosing?>>>So future direction would be micro dosing. Very good. Yes, sir.>>>(indiscernible).>>>Longitudinal studies with comparisons to other altered states. Yes.>>>(indiscernible).>>>.>>>More indigenous traditions.>>>This is not a symposium for next year. The next decade.>>>Yes, sir.>>>(indiscernible).>>>Neuroimaging and simulation. Next.>>>(indiscernible).>>>During a category by themselves. The subject of what’s going on around them. In just — I can’t stress enough the responsibility — I think we saw this.>>>Is important. So if that can be an ongoing study for clinicians and the therapist.>>>Thank you. Yes, sir.>>>(indiscernible).>>>Thank you, sir. Wow. A lot of ideas. We do that. That’s primarily what we do. We don’t do that. So we might need some other people. Yes.>>>That’s right. It’s all a part of the rigorous dialogue. Another point that just pops into my head that we are talking about are also some of the legal and policy implications and how those types of positive and negative data feed into that. Yes.>>>It might have show the difference or comparison.>>>(indiscernible).>>>So natural variance versus synthetic. Yes.>>>(indiscernible).>>>So responsible community outreach and communication. Yes.>>>No go.>>>Connected to the underground. Actually, can I have a round of applause for that beautiful baby (applause).>>>I don’t know about you, but that beautiful little boy just all day has just kept my spirits high. He’s on the ultimate trip. (laughing).>>>I’m sorry. Ultimate dream ultimate journey. Yes.>>>(indiscernible). Excellent. So I talked a lot about the grad students know we have to start engaging the undergrads. Yes.>>>Responding Ãexpanding beyond — the interpersonal and community dimension. Yes.>>>Stuart. Or as we call him uncles do. (laughing) We — yes. I know Stuart very well. And actually, we — we recently published work on quantum physics and out of statics in line with Ãaesthetics ÃMegan the broader theory orchestrated objective reduction. Stuart — it’s interesting. Yes. (indiscernible) — >>Question: (indiscernible) What is wonderful and it ties up was questions and technology. Anyone who hasn’t had a chance to speak? Okay. Yes.>>Question: (indiscernible) So chronic diseases that aren’t primarily psychiatric but certainly have a lot of sequelae. Any other new comments Yes, sir.>>>Yes. And certainly a timely topic touched upon today if it could be expanded.>>>Interesting. The evolution of consciousness through psychedelics. Let me make sure that — another new comments. Yes.>>Question: (indiscernible).>>>.>>>Trying to connect the conscious the other Vegas? Yes, sir.>>Question: I’d love to see a study on political allegiances and opening of the mind maybe some sort of — you open your mind to you get to see the — a little bit better the allegiances if they would change. I don’t know. (laughing). (applause).>>>(laughing). Yes.>>Question: (indiscernible). Access. Okay. Now, >>>(indiscernible) So sort of a broader context before getting to the original individual data. Yes?>>Question: (indiscernible) >>>Got it. There may be smart time for that.>>Question: (indiscernible).>>>Did you say this is that of the human body? All right. We are all waiting with baited breath.>>>(laughing).>>Question: (indiscernible).>>>Absolutely. And that connection is fascinating. And Neil Sapp is doing work with that.>>>Wonderful. I need to start another six centers and plan out 10 years worth of work. That was amazing. Thank you all so much for your wonderful ideas. Give yourself a hand. And again, thank you so much for being here. It was an amazing experience. Again, want to thank her speakers and the organizers and thank you so very much. Have a wonderful evening I hope this takes us in great new directions. Thank you. (applause). Real-tme closed captioning provided by U.S. Captioning Company

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